3 ms·

100 miles in great. But gasoline is one hell of an energy dense and convenient fuel. It will go several hundred miles and "recharges" in minutes. Hydrogen coul

100 miles in great. But gasoline is one hell of an energy dense and convenient fuel. It will go several hundred miles and "recharges" in minutes. Hydrogen could be as energy dense but transporting it is a pain. That's why I've been wondering about a sealed tank with water, which would use electrolysis to split it into hydrogen and oxygen. The gas stations could keep huge capacitors which continually recharge slowly from the gird. When a car pulls up the capacitor would dump enough juice in it to split the water in minutes. Then while you drive you "burn" the hydrogen and turn it back into water. But the whole system is sealed and there's no need to worry about the infrastructure necessary to ship hydrogen all over the continent.

Retric 18y ago
The gas station could also directly split the water which is easy to transport. The only advantage to on bard electrolysis is home charging. Anyway, the real problem is storing enough H2 to drive a useful distance.
- biohacker42 18y ago
  Good point the stations could certainly split the water. I was under the impression that fuel cells to have range comparable to gasoline. Here's a wired blog about Toyota's fuel cell claims: http://blog.wired.com/cars/2008/06/516-mile-range.html http://blog.wired.com/cars/2008/06/516-mile-range.html
  - Retric 18y ago
    You can burn hydrogen in a normal car engine the issue is the fuel tank. Pound per Pound Hydrogen has a higher energy density than gas, but high pressure tanks are costly and take up a lot of space. Fuel cells have a higher efficiency which let's you store less fuel, but they are even more costly. You can even make a hybrid, fuel cell, hydrogen car like the FCHV-adv, but few people are going to want to pay the full cost of such a beast. Ok, they could do a small production run like the Bugatti Veyron http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bugatti_Veyron http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bugatti_Veyron at a loss. PS: Toyota, is getting people to road test their prototype, but don't think this is any where near being cost effective in mass production.
    - biohacker42 18y ago
      I wonder what's an easier engineering task, affordable fuel cells, or affordable high pressure hydrogen tanks?
gameguy 17y ago
There's some problems with that concept based on how fuel cells currently work. The hydrogen feeding into the fuel cells needs to be very dry and pure, necessitating ultrapure water. Furthermore, the hydrogen would need to still be stored on the vehicle. Storage on the vehicle is actually not that big of a problem. Hydrogen is explosive, but people forget that gasoline is also extremely explosive... and yet we drive around sloshing tanks with very few issues (unlike the movies where the slightest fender-bender results in a fireball). The fuel cells are the hard part. The cheap ones are fickle, with narrow active temperatures and intolerance for contaminants. The most efficient ones run at very high temperatures, are heavy, and involve nasty chemicals... very useful for sealed stationary applications, not so for cars.

Retric 18y ago

The gas station could also directly split the water which is easy to transport. The only advantage to on bard electrolysis is home charging. Anyway, the real problem is storing enough H2 to drive a useful distance.

biohacker42 18y ago
Good point the stations could certainly split the water. I was under the impression that fuel cells to have range comparable to gasoline. Here's a wired blog about Toyota's fuel cell claims: http://blog.wired.com/cars/2008/06/516-mile-range.html http://blog.wired.com/cars/2008/06/516-mile-range.html
- Retric 18y ago
  You can burn hydrogen in a normal car engine the issue is the fuel tank. Pound per Pound Hydrogen has a higher energy density than gas, but high pressure tanks are costly and take up a lot of space. Fuel cells have a higher efficiency which let's you store less fuel, but they are even more costly. You can even make a hybrid, fuel cell, hydrogen car like the FCHV-adv, but few people are going to want to pay the full cost of such a beast. Ok, they could do a small production run like the Bugatti Veyron http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bugatti_Veyron http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bugatti_Veyron at a loss. PS: Toyota, is getting people to road test their prototype, but don't think this is any where near being cost effective in mass production.
  - biohacker42 18y ago
    I wonder what's an easier engineering task, affordable fuel cells, or affordable high pressure hydrogen tanks?

gameguy 17y ago

There's some problems with that concept based on how fuel cells currently work. The hydrogen feeding into the fuel cells needs to be very dry and pure, necessitating ultrapure water. Furthermore, the hydrogen would need to still be stored on the vehicle. Storage on the vehicle is actually not that big of a problem. Hydrogen is explosive, but people forget that gasoline is also extremely explosive... and yet we drive around sloshing tanks with very few issues (unlike the movies where the slightest fender-bender results in a fireball). The fuel cells are the hard part. The cheap ones are fickle, with narrow active temperatures and intolerance for contaminants. The most efficient ones run at very high temperatures, are heavy, and involve nasty chemicals... very useful for sealed stationary applications, not so for cars.