3 ms·

Ultrasound imaging now possible with a smartphone

13 points by ph0rque 18y ago

jasongullickson 18y ago
I've considered building something like this for awhile, I'm curious as to the electronics required in the probe itself. I'm sure a "medical grade" version would be quite expensive but I can see a "baby-monitor"-class device as being a huge hit with consumers.
- josefresco 18y ago
  You got that right, I know about a dozen young couples who would buy one in a second that are expecting. Anyone know if an 'at home' baby monitor device exists now?
- tricky 18y ago
  have a look here: http://www.bme.cornell.edu/bme/cms/people/grad/upload/Lewis-et-al-Development-of-a-portable-therapeutic-AIP-Nov-2008.pdf http://www.bme.cornell.edu/bme/cms/people/grad/upload/Lewis-... I work in an ultrasound imaging research lab (at wash u, but at the med school, not engineering). Hit me up jordan52 at gmail if you get serious. I've wanted to do this for a while, too.
HeyLaughingBoy 18y ago
What he's done is impressive to be sure, but getting the build cost down isn't really the problem; it's the lack of substantial competition that will keep prices up. Someone has to build and sell these things and in the US and every other industrialized nation it will be regulated as a Medical Device. Likely, before it can be used in developing nations also, it will need some form of regulation and that's where the high cost comes from. Designing medical devices, getting them FDA approved, and then building them to meet the standards, and meeting product support requirements (I think we're required to provide support 5 years after we stop selling a Medical Device) is expensive and any company doing that is going to want to recoup their costs. There's a high barrier to entry in Medical Device manufacture and as long as that barrier exists, businesses will take advantage of it and the products will be expensive. For example, the company I work for makes a medical instrument that costs us about $60,000 to build. We sell it for around 10x that. His $500 probe will probably end up being sold for about $7-10,000 by the time it hits the market.
- jasongullickson 18y ago
  Would it necessarily have to be sold as a regulated medical device if it is not used as such? There are many companies which sell devices which claim to function as fetal heart monitors (most of which do not work) which are sold without regulation. There are also consumer-targeted EEG, EKG and such devices which provide medical information but do not claim to be clinical-grade. I don't know what the law here is, but as long as it was not sold with any diagnostic claims, and did not recommend any invasive use, would it fall under regulated equipment? I do agree however that competition (or lack thereof) will be a determining factor.
  - HeyLaughingBoy 18y ago
    (most of which do not work) That's pretty much the key: if you can make it work in a medically useful fashion then there's a lot more money to be made selling it as an actual regulated Device. As long as you don't make medical claims then it won't be regulated as a Medical Device, but it would still have to follow other Consumer Product Safety regulations. Those are much easier/cheaper to meet. The only EEG/EKG type devices I have ever seen were kits and they didn't provide any medically useful information. Ultrasound imager classification is covered here: http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFRSearch.cfm?fr=884.2225 http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFRS...
    - randallsquared 18y ago
      if you can make it work in a medically useful fashion then there's a lot more money to be made selling it as an actual regulated Device. I can't see why this would be true. Selling it for $500 now (and $50 in five years, as these things go) seems like it would mean an incredibly larger market than selling it for $7-10K, as you suggest.
a-priori 18y ago
Any other Star Trek nerds here think this sounds like the beginnings of a Tricorder?
msie 18y ago
It will be great if they make it for the iPhone. OS 3.0 now has support for external peripherals in the SDK.

13 points by ph0rque 18y ago

I've considered building something like this for awhile, I'm curious as to the electronics required in the probe itself. I'm sure a "medical grade" version would be quite expensive but I can see a "baby-monitor"-class device as being a huge hit with consumers.

josefresco 18y ago
You got that right, I know about a dozen young couples who would buy one in a second that are expecting. Anyone know if an 'at home' baby monitor device exists now?
tricky 18y ago
have a look here: http://www.bme.cornell.edu/bme/cms/people/grad/upload/Lewis-et-al-Development-of-a-portable-therapeutic-AIP-Nov-2008.pdf http://www.bme.cornell.edu/bme/cms/people/grad/upload/Lewis-... I work in an ultrasound imaging research lab (at wash u, but at the med school, not engineering). Hit me up jordan52 at gmail if you get serious. I've wanted to do this for a while, too.

HeyLaughingBoy 18y ago

What he's done is impressive to be sure, but getting the build cost down isn't really the problem; it's the lack of substantial competition that will keep prices up. Someone has to build and sell these things and in the US and every other industrialized nation it will be regulated as a Medical Device. Likely, before it can be used in developing nations also, it will need some form of regulation and that's where the high cost comes from. Designing medical devices, getting them FDA approved, and then building them to meet the standards, and meeting product support requirements (I think we're required to provide support 5 years after we stop selling a Medical Device) is expensive and any company doing that is going to want to recoup their costs. There's a high barrier to entry in Medical Device manufacture and as long as that barrier exists, businesses will take advantage of it and the products will be expensive. For example, the company I work for makes a medical instrument that costs us about $60,000 to build. We sell it for around 10x that. His $500 probe will probably end up being sold for about $7-10,000 by the time it hits the market.

jasongullickson 18y ago
Would it necessarily have to be sold as a regulated medical device if it is not used as such? There are many companies which sell devices which claim to function as fetal heart monitors (most of which do not work) which are sold without regulation. There are also consumer-targeted EEG, EKG and such devices which provide medical information but do not claim to be clinical-grade. I don't know what the law here is, but as long as it was not sold with any diagnostic claims, and did not recommend any invasive use, would it fall under regulated equipment? I do agree however that competition (or lack thereof) will be a determining factor.
- HeyLaughingBoy 18y ago
  (most of which do not work) That's pretty much the key: if you can make it work in a medically useful fashion then there's a lot more money to be made selling it as an actual regulated Device. As long as you don't make medical claims then it won't be regulated as a Medical Device, but it would still have to follow other Consumer Product Safety regulations. Those are much easier/cheaper to meet. The only EEG/EKG type devices I have ever seen were kits and they didn't provide any medically useful information. Ultrasound imager classification is covered here: http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFRSearch.cfm?fr=884.2225 http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFRS...
  - randallsquared 18y ago
    if you can make it work in a medically useful fashion then there's a lot more money to be made selling it as an actual regulated Device. I can't see why this would be true. Selling it for $500 now (and $50 in five years, as these things go) seems like it would mean an incredibly larger market than selling it for $7-10K, as you suggest.

a-priori 18y ago

Any other Star Trek nerds here think this sounds like the beginnings of a Tricorder?

msie 18y ago

It will be great if they make it for the iPhone. OS 3.0 now has support for external peripherals in the SDK.