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The horrible treatment of just about anyone that enters the prison system is the primary driver of our plea-based justice system. While Weev's friends may thin
by downandout 13y ago
The horrible treatment of just about anyone that enters the prison system is the primary driver of our plea-based justice system. While Weev's friends may think that the Bureau of Prisons (BOP) is afraid of their public complaints, the opposite is true. Such public stories help get other defendants to plead guilty in exchange for reduced sentences, hopefully in minimum security, "Club Fed" type facilities, before significant resources have to be spent on their prosecution. By discussing it here and spreading it online, we are actually advancing the goals of federal prosecutors across the country.
As far as Weev himself, not much can be done. The feds are permitted to house any inmate in essentially any conditions they want as long as they meet certain (incredibly low) standards. Once you are in their grasp, you are at their mercy. Theoretically, they can keep him in segregation for the duration of his sentence. The bra thing is ordinary for jails and prisons. He is being threatened with "Diesel Therapy" - being moved from prison to prison - in order to disrupt his posts to the Internet which violate their rules.
Basically, he hasn't learned (but will soon) that he is no longer in control. The harder he fights against the rules, no matter how idiotic those rules may be, the more difficult his life will become. This is true both while in custody and during the entire term of his Supervised Release. None of this is necessary or right in the eyes of anyone with half a brain, but it is the system we have and he exposed himself to it.
- antihero 13y agoIt amazes me that people aren't revolting over this - how is this not considered comparable to slavery on an utterly massive and unprecedented scale?
- kaonashi 13y agoBecause it's rare that white middle/upper class people are subjected to it.
- pyre 13y agoMore like, because it's happening to someone that is: a) 'one of us' and b) he's someone high profile, that is attempting to remain so even after going to prison. I have a feeling that if Weev was black or Asian it would still be a big deal to us[1]. I don't remember hearing much about Kevin Mitnik's issues with his jailers. I'm sure he had at least some. [1] Though there is the remote possibility that it would be cared about 'less' because it would be seen as racial discrimination rather than just out right maliciousness, but I'm optimistic that this wouldn't be the case.
- err_badprocrast 13y ago"White middle/upper class" are statistically much less likely to be personally affected by these prison policies. Nothing about Weev's treatment is unusual; it's just that nobody cares when it happens to "normal criminals" who are disproportionately not white or rich. Humans are likely to ignore a problem that doesn't affect anyone they know or identify with.
- pyre 13y ago| Humans are likely to ignore a problem that | doesn't affect anyone they know or identify | with. That's what I was trying to hit on with 'one of us.' That we (the HN crowd) care mostly because he's part of the 'techno elite' so to speak. Less so because he's white/middle-class. It just happens that the 'techno elite' is (seemingly) disproportionately white (not sure about middle-class). It also doesn't hurt that we see him as a bit of a martyr because he got a prison sentence that we don't feel fit the crime (and therefore feel that he's drawn the ire of 'the man' so to speak).
- tantalor 13y agoPrisoners generally are not sympathized with.
- downandout 13y agoThis has been going on for decades and virtually every aspect of prisoner treatment has been challenged through civil rights lawsuits against the government. Not surprisingly, the government wins nearly all of these cases, and most are thrown out long before trial. No one - not the public, judges, politicians, or the media - seems to care. In the eyes of most, prisoners are, well, prisoners.
- cynicalkane 13y agoI would differ on the claim that this is an "unprecedented level of slavery". I can think of a precedent level of slavery in U.S. history.
- antihero 13y agoIIRC there are more blacks in the US prison system then there ever were slaves under slavery: http://globalgrind.com/news/more-black-men-prison-system-today-slaves-1850-secret-our-success-michael-skolnik-blog http://globalgrind.com/news/more-black-men-prison-system-tod...
- rangibaby 13y agoThe way I grokked is that this is the first thing really comparable to slavery since it "officially" ended. It's not a novel opinion; blacks are incarcerated at six times the level of whites (1). http://www.naacp.org/pages/criminal-justice-fact-sheet http://www.naacp.org/pages/criminal-justice-fact-sheet
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- Shivetya 13y agohttp://libertyfight.com/2013/New_York_City_Crime_stats_based_on_race.html http://libertyfight.com/2013/New_York_City_Crime_stats_based... Statistics are what you make them, considering that blacks are more likely to victims of violence to other blacks, when they are not the majority, how can the outcome of incarceration rates be remedied?
- bdisraeli 13y agoMost people in the prison system are there for non-violent offenses. [1] In Chicago, blacks were arrested (before decriminalisation last year) for cannabis consumption at a rate of 15 persons for every 1 white person despite similar rates of cannabis consumption among blacks and whites. [2] People who have gone to prison for any of offense have a 40% chance of eventually going back to prison. [3] I would suggest that the change in incarceration rates starts with less racist policing. [1] http://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=1118 http://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=1118 [2] http://m.chicagoreader.com/chicago/chicago-marijuana-arrest-statistics/Content?oid=4198958 http://m.chicagoreader.com/chicago/chicago-marijuana-arrest-... [3] http://reason.com/archives/2011/06/08/prison-math http://reason.com/archives/2011/06/08/prison-math
- JulianMorrison 13y agoSlavery is legal in prison. Yes, you should be revolting over this.
- ap22213 13y agoWell, because it's prison. By historical standards, this is pretty mild. I'd like to know why we have so many awful laws on the books. Seems like we have so many, that most of us could be locked up, if they happen to irk the wrong people.
- WildUtah 13y agoI'd like to know why we have so many awful laws on the books. Seems like we have so many, that most of us could be locked up, if they happen to irk the wrong people. Conveniently answering your own question.
- sliverstorm 13y agoThere seems to be a variety of reasons. Two that come to mind: - No matter how well you write it, it seems that law will always be subject to a certain degree of interpretation. You could even argue that good law intentionally leaves room for interpretation- see "reasonable person" clauses. This is because people are not black and white, and society changes over time. - Some laws probably really are too broad, left that way to ensure you can pin people. As always when this subject comes up, I recall Al Capone, who was brought in on tax evasion (not mobstering)
- notmarkus 13y ago"Cop on the beat: the last true dictatorship in America." -- Jimmy McNulty (paraphrased). When you have so many laws, everyone is a criminal. And when everyone is a criminal, those enforcing the laws become the ones who make them. Why is the speed limit still laughably low in most of the country? Most drivers are consistently driving 10-15 mph over the speed limit, at least where I live. It gives cops the ability to pull you over whenever they see fit.
- stinkytaco 13y agoYeah, but no one goes to jail for speeding. And they can already pull you over whenever they want. This is how they catch dunk drivers. Swerving, driving too fast for conditions, driving erratically or all sorts of other subjective terms. They can set up a checkpoint and pull you over just because. Speed limits are really the least of it and don't serve your argument well. Edit: I want to point out that I've defended speed limits here before because speed limits, like building codes, are created by engineers, not some arbitrary big government conspiracy. Like most laws, they are well thought out and for everyone's safety.
- wmt 13y agoHave you read the Thirteenth Amendment which abolished slavery? Not only are prisoners comparable to slaves, they are slaves. "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction"
- smutticus 13y agoIt is basically slavery when you get someone's labor without paying them for it. Here are some interesting things to read if you want to know more. Good general overview of prison labor: http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2013/04/04/prison-labor-and-taxpayer-dollars/ http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2013/04/04/prison-labor... More detailed account of prison labor in Nevada regarding casinos and construction. http://vltp.net/casinos-prison-labor-strange-bedfellows/ http://vltp.net/casinos-prison-labor-strange-bedfellows/ The slave market: http://www.unicor.gov/ http://www.unicor.gov/ You can even get slave labor to operate your call center: http://www.unicor.gov/services/contact_helpdesk/ http://www.unicor.gov/services/contact_helpdesk/
- tantalor 13y agoGiving a prisoner a higher degree of punishment inconsistent with their sentence would strike me as "unusual".
- pekk 13y agoHave you been in a "Club Fed" type facility? Maybe it isn't as nice as you seem to think.
- quackerhacker 13y agoClub Fed is easy (btw: club fed usually means camp)...they sold cigarettes where I was (that narrows it down since there is only 1 that does). It was hard for my family for me to be away, and of course it was emotionally hard for me. I had access to computers while on pretrial and right when I got out on supervised release, but only NOW have I actually started really using that privilege (and NO I don't have monitoring software on my systems). The halfway house in Oakland sucked more than being inside (they had shootings and people died), but hope compelled me to go there.
- tripzilch 13y agoWhat you say seems to logically makes sense, but if you think about it, in the end boils down to "better be quiet or the bullies will make it even worse". Better be quiet or the bullies will make it even worse. There are so many thoughts I have on this but it all boils down to this. Do you submit that not talking about something very wrong that is happening right now in your justice system and is supported by it, are you saying that keeping quiet about it is a "better" option than making it open, public and letting people know? That is exactly the logic of an abused kid. I am sorry.
- sliverstorm 13y agoThat is exactly the logic of an abused kid. I am sorry. This seems like a veiled ad-hominem.
- tripzilch 13y agoI'm not sure how, but that was not the intention. It means exactly what it says. I disapprove of the line of reasoning, that's what the comparison was about, not his person. It reminded me of something.
- sliverstorm 13y agoThe "I'm sorry" at the end reads as if to imply downandout is (was) an abused kid.
- michaelerule 13y agoI could see how some people might interpret it as such, but my impression was that tripzilch was aiming for a more general metaphor. The term "stockholm syndrome" might also have been fitting. I interpreted it as a general statement about victims becoming inured to their suffering to the point where they start to defend it.
- mcherm 13y agoReally? Because to me it sounded like he was describing the type of thinking, not making a statement about the person engaged in that thinking -- I don't even know which person it is supposed to be an ad-homienem attack on.
- gnoway 13y agoI'm not sure I agree with the last part of this. Setting aside whether he should be in prison at all, he is, and being in prison is not about just locking someone up for a while. The whole 'you are not in control' thing is part and parcel with the experience. I think it's kind of the point. What I've read about weev suggests that he's the type of guy that will try to push every button on every person at every opportunity. If this is true about him, that he's being mistreated in this way is not a surprise at all. Maybe some good will come of the attention, but I would be surprised if it's a positive change in the way the BOP responds to irritant prisoners.
- DanBC 13y ago> What I've read about weev suggests that he's the type of guy that will try to push every button on every person at every opportunity. Indeed. If true it's probably good to be separated from the prison population to avoid him getting shivved.