5 ms·

To me, this reads less like a Minecraft-is-great piece and more like a tablets-are-great piece. Julie's daughter isn't just choosing Minecraft over Disney -- s

by jmduke 13y ago

To me, this reads less like a Minecraft-is-great piece and more like a tablets-are-great piece. Julie's daughter isn't just choosing Minecraft over Disney -- she's choosing activity over passivity, creation instead of consumption. For the first time ever, toddlers (as in, people too young to understand how a Gameboy works) are interacting and playing in increasingly complex ways. It's not a niche often covered in HN, but the childrens' app market is booming at an unparalleled level: it's why everyone from Amazon to Valve is trying to get involved, because suddenly we have this ubiquitous magical technology that lets our five year olds learn fractions while being on an adventure -- and the price is $.99, instead of an overpriced $15.99 pop-up book or a $49.99 DVD. There's a lot of FUD in this overwhelmingly technological age, but I think it speaks volumes when I think that I'd rather be a kid now than any other time. The future is bright.

claudius 13y ago
The child in question is nine. I distinctly recall a friend of mine having a gameboy in primary school, and I got my first computer (well, ‘us kids’ got it) at that age, too. With an actual keyboard and letting me explore that thing rather than merely being an interface to Youtube and Minecraft.
- __david__ 13y ago
  I got my first computer when I was 7 (2nd grade). I had to built it—my dad gave me the circuit board, a bunch of parts and the schematic. He showed me how to match the schematic parts to thier number on the board and the number on the chip. He gave me a cheat sheet for the resistor's colors (I didn't end up memorizing them--to this day I have to look them up). He showed me how to bend the pins so the parts didn't fall out when you turned the board over to solder them. I'd spend an hour putting parts in, then I'd get to my favorite part where I got to use the soldering iron. I'd flip the board over and solder all the holes I'd just filled with parts. My dad would monitor me for a few minutes before he got bored and then it was all me. I don't remember how long it took because it was so long ago, but I remember finally soldering the last part in and looking in awe at my bootleg Apple ][+. The first time I used it it didn't even have a case. And no disks either--we used the tape to load some games and play around. I learned basic that way and that computer is probably why I'm a programmer today. I loved that computer—I still have that computer. And it still works.
  - dchichkov 13y ago
    Yep. It's funny, but a 5 year old can easily manage an oscilloscope and basic analog circuits. And a 6-7 year old - an oscilloscope, a logic probe and digital circuits. The kid doesn't have to be a wunderkind too. It is just a matter of being exposed to these tools and having dad working at home with the equipment.
- mikeash 13y ago
  I got my first computer around that age as well. However, that was far from the norm.
  - claudius 13y ago
    I probably have a terrible bias there, but most other kids I knew had access to computers, too, at this age and possibly before. That was in 1999/2000, I guess you’re slightly older.
    - mikeash 13y ago
      Indeed, my first computer at home was around 1988.
- greggman 13y ago
  This! I don't know if the fact that an iPad can't be programmed but kids are getting tons of them is a net positive (exposure to stuff in general) or a net negative (no programming allowed). Wishing Apple would relax their restrictions.
  - gurkendoktor 13y ago
    You can program games on the iPad: http://twolivesleft.com/Codea/ http://twolivesleft.com/Codea/ It all depends on what you compare it to. To me, iPad and iPhone are the new SNES and Game Boy (which I grew up with), and they are much more open. The biggest loss to me is the experience of playing socially on a split-screen.
  - claudius 13y ago
    I wouldn't say I was programming at the age of 9 on the Pentium I with Windows 95, but I was happily clicking away in Windows Explorer, quite literally ‘exploring’. Programming started a few years later with QBASIC and such :)
- Cthulhu_ 13y ago
  My dad picked me up and chucked me behind his first computer when I was 3 (24 years ago) to play Paratrooper with a joystick. Supposedly it didn't take too long before I could start the thing up, switch floppy disks, a: and start up the game(s). Not too long later my parents put me behind the PC whenever there was a new game so I could figure it out.
rbol 13y ago
I agree that tablets/phones/etc are a great way for children to learn and interact. However, I'm always weary that they become accustomed to getting everything "on demand". Anecdotally, I have young family members who have a hard time focusing when it comes to things like homework. I guess it's possible that I could have imagined this connection though. I'd love to see a study take a look at how these devices affect children's attention spans as they get older.
- jonpeda 13y ago
  "Devices" have been driving children to "epidemic" levels of ADHD for a decade or two at least, so it is hard to see the connection now. I suspect it's more to do with general increase in wealth (at least as far as access to toys and kid-size luxuries, even though we lack overall real estate and retirement wealth for adults) and lower demands on our children in recent decades.
- officemonkey 13y ago
  As a relatively new parent, I'm wary about this "epidemic" of ADHD. Ken Robinson did a fascinating talk on this: http://www.ted.com/talks/ken_robinson_changing_education_paradigms.html http://www.ted.com/talks/ken_robinson_changing_education_par...
davidrudder 13y ago
It's more than that. I have an 8 year old and an 11 year old who are into minecraft. Minecraft is 100x better than other video games. My son is using redstone and logic gates to build things. My daughter designs these expansive cities with, yes, pools full of wool. It's better than shooting zombies with peas or wiping out the world with an engineered parasite.
- DavidAdams 13y ago
  I can't tell you how excited my 11 year old was this morning to show me his latest world right after he'd installed a new texture pack that worked with the old red-blue 3D glasses. I tried to explore around a really felt like an old geezer when I accidentally busted a hole in his wall when I was trying to climb a ladder. "I don't understand these new-fangled games."
  - davidrudder 13y ago
    You're right. I shouldn't have busted on plants vs zombies. My point was that Minecraft is a particularly good game.
- nickzoic 13y ago
  Agreed re: minecraft, which is fantastic, but Plants vs. Zombies is actually a really good game too. I like to think of the planting sunflowers mechanic as the kids' first introduction to compound interest. If the kids are really excited about logic gates, hunt down "Rocky's Boots"[1] or one of its descendants. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockys_Boots http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockys_Boots
  - sounds 13y ago
    Link correction: [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocky%27s_Boots http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocky%27s_Boots
    - nickzoic 13y ago
      Thanks! I just cut-and-pasted it, didn't think to check whether the quote had made it through unmolested.
whatusername 13y ago
I think you're underestimating the ability of toddlers. At 2-3 years old I could select the paint shop pro disk out of the box (it was a different color), put it into the apple Mac plus. Run the app. Do my digital drawings. Save.
- egor83 13y ago
  "Leon learned how to use Skype really well. He finds the app in iPhone, opens it, finds the grandma he wants to talk to, opens chat, presses videocall button. And there comes the problem - Leon can't talk yet." (translated from Russian) http://bash.im/quote/422509 http://bash.im/quote/422509
- pseut 13y ago
  My 4yo daughter can set the foreground and background colors in emacs on her own (the commands are written out in her notebook, but not in any particular order). We were both really proud the first time she pulled it off. a text editor with bright colors and large fonts is thousands of times better than magnetic letters.
  - wtbob 13y ago
    > My 4yo daughter can set the foreground and background colors in emacs You, sir, win! More seriously, has she learnt how to read and type? Or does she like playing with letters on the screen?
    - pseut 13y ago
      She types by hunt and peck. The was a while where I'd have to help her find the "f" key, etc., but that's pretty rare now. She has a notebook with some words spelled out in it (names mostly: "Cinderella," "Ariel," "Mommy,"...) and she'll type them in and read them, and I'll usually write her some sort of message on the screen when we set it up. We started doing this last fall IIRC and she'd either play with letters or we'd use commands and type words in together. There was a lot of filling the screen with "*" to make a snowstorm. She's somewhat more independent now but there's still a lot of running back and forth and consultation. She likes Webdings a lot too.

by jmduke 13y ago

claudius 13y ago

The child in question is nine. I distinctly recall a friend of mine having a gameboy in primary school, and I got my first computer (well, ‘us kids’ got it) at that age, too. With an actual keyboard and letting me explore that thing rather than merely being an interface to Youtube and Minecraft.

__david__ 13y ago
I got my first computer when I was 7 (2nd grade). I had to built it—my dad gave me the circuit board, a bunch of parts and the schematic. He showed me how to match the schematic parts to thier number on the board and the number on the chip. He gave me a cheat sheet for the resistor's colors (I didn't end up memorizing them--to this day I have to look them up). He showed me how to bend the pins so the parts didn't fall out when you turned the board over to solder them. I'd spend an hour putting parts in, then I'd get to my favorite part where I got to use the soldering iron. I'd flip the board over and solder all the holes I'd just filled with parts. My dad would monitor me for a few minutes before he got bored and then it was all me. I don't remember how long it took because it was so long ago, but I remember finally soldering the last part in and looking in awe at my bootleg Apple ][+. The first time I used it it didn't even have a case. And no disks either--we used the tape to load some games and play around. I learned basic that way and that computer is probably why I'm a programmer today. I loved that computer—I still have that computer. And it still works.
- dchichkov 13y ago
  Yep. It's funny, but a 5 year old can easily manage an oscilloscope and basic analog circuits. And a 6-7 year old - an oscilloscope, a logic probe and digital circuits. The kid doesn't have to be a wunderkind too. It is just a matter of being exposed to these tools and having dad working at home with the equipment.
mikeash 13y ago
I got my first computer around that age as well. However, that was far from the norm.
- claudius 13y ago
  I probably have a terrible bias there, but most other kids I knew had access to computers, too, at this age and possibly before. That was in 1999/2000, I guess you’re slightly older.
  - mikeash 13y ago
    Indeed, my first computer at home was around 1988.
greggman 13y ago
This! I don't know if the fact that an iPad can't be programmed but kids are getting tons of them is a net positive (exposure to stuff in general) or a net negative (no programming allowed). Wishing Apple would relax their restrictions.
- gurkendoktor 13y ago
  You can program games on the iPad: http://twolivesleft.com/Codea/ http://twolivesleft.com/Codea/ It all depends on what you compare it to. To me, iPad and iPhone are the new SNES and Game Boy (which I grew up with), and they are much more open. The biggest loss to me is the experience of playing socially on a split-screen.
- claudius 13y ago
  I wouldn't say I was programming at the age of 9 on the Pentium I with Windows 95, but I was happily clicking away in Windows Explorer, quite literally ‘exploring’. Programming started a few years later with QBASIC and such :)
Cthulhu_ 13y ago
My dad picked me up and chucked me behind his first computer when I was 3 (24 years ago) to play Paratrooper with a joystick. Supposedly it didn't take too long before I could start the thing up, switch floppy disks, a: and start up the game(s). Not too long later my parents put me behind the PC whenever there was a new game so I could figure it out.

rbol 13y ago

I agree that tablets/phones/etc are a great way for children to learn and interact. However, I'm always weary that they become accustomed to getting everything "on demand". Anecdotally, I have young family members who have a hard time focusing when it comes to things like homework. I guess it's possible that I could have imagined this connection though. I'd love to see a study take a look at how these devices affect children's attention spans as they get older.

jonpeda 13y ago
"Devices" have been driving children to "epidemic" levels of ADHD for a decade or two at least, so it is hard to see the connection now. I suspect it's more to do with general increase in wealth (at least as far as access to toys and kid-size luxuries, even though we lack overall real estate and retirement wealth for adults) and lower demands on our children in recent decades.
officemonkey 13y ago
As a relatively new parent, I'm wary about this "epidemic" of ADHD. Ken Robinson did a fascinating talk on this: http://www.ted.com/talks/ken_robinson_changing_education_paradigms.html http://www.ted.com/talks/ken_robinson_changing_education_par...

davidrudder 13y ago

It's more than that. I have an 8 year old and an 11 year old who are into minecraft. Minecraft is 100x better than other video games. My son is using redstone and logic gates to build things. My daughter designs these expansive cities with, yes, pools full of wool. It's better than shooting zombies with peas or wiping out the world with an engineered parasite.

DavidAdams 13y ago
I can't tell you how excited my 11 year old was this morning to show me his latest world right after he'd installed a new texture pack that worked with the old red-blue 3D glasses. I tried to explore around a really felt like an old geezer when I accidentally busted a hole in his wall when I was trying to climb a ladder. "I don't understand these new-fangled games."
- davidrudder 13y ago
  You're right. I shouldn't have busted on plants vs zombies. My point was that Minecraft is a particularly good game.
nickzoic 13y ago
Agreed re: minecraft, which is fantastic, but Plants vs. Zombies is actually a really good game too. I like to think of the planting sunflowers mechanic as the kids' first introduction to compound interest. If the kids are really excited about logic gates, hunt down "Rocky's Boots"[1] or one of its descendants. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockys_Boots http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockys_Boots
- sounds 13y ago
  Link correction: [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocky%27s_Boots http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocky%27s_Boots
  - nickzoic 13y ago
    Thanks! I just cut-and-pasted it, didn't think to check whether the quote had made it through unmolested.

whatusername 13y ago

I think you're underestimating the ability of toddlers. At 2-3 years old I could select the paint shop pro disk out of the box (it was a different color), put it into the apple Mac plus. Run the app. Do my digital drawings. Save.

egor83 13y ago
"Leon learned how to use Skype really well. He finds the app in iPhone, opens it, finds the grandma he wants to talk to, opens chat, presses videocall button. And there comes the problem - Leon can't talk yet." (translated from Russian) http://bash.im/quote/422509 http://bash.im/quote/422509
pseut 13y ago
My 4yo daughter can set the foreground and background colors in emacs on her own (the commands are written out in her notebook, but not in any particular order). We were both really proud the first time she pulled it off. a text editor with bright colors and large fonts is thousands of times better than magnetic letters.
- wtbob 13y ago
  > My 4yo daughter can set the foreground and background colors in emacs You, sir, win! More seriously, has she learnt how to read and type? Or does she like playing with letters on the screen?
  - pseut 13y ago
    She types by hunt and peck. The was a while where I'd have to help her find the "f" key, etc., but that's pretty rare now. She has a notebook with some words spelled out in it (names mostly: "Cinderella," "Ariel," "Mommy,"...) and she'll type them in and read them, and I'll usually write her some sort of message on the screen when we set it up. We started doing this last fall IIRC and she'd either play with letters or we'd use commands and type words in together. There was a lot of filling the screen with "*" to make a snowstorm. She's somewhat more independent now but there's still a lot of running back and forth and consultation. She likes Webdings a lot too.