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Scorched Earth - if Google can't own the web then it must destroy it

20 points by chmars 13y ago

smoyer 13y ago
Well ... that implies a long-term strategy with the actor assuming it's a zero-sum game. The other possibility is that Google is simply following a completely economic strategy and that each of the decisions described would end up maximizing their return. I think the real question is "why did we accept so many Beta services, knowing that there was no guarantee they'd be brought to market". If we'd only let them be a search company, would this even be a problem?
- Retric 13y ago
  We rarely act in our own collective best interest. Rather individuals for a variety of reasons start using Beta services. Many of them end up burned as it shuts down, but far more move on to the next new thing.
kailuowang 13y ago
Very interesting theory. Maybe that's why Microsoft is doing the same to desktop OS? Apple must act quickly to destroy the smartphones.
azakai 13y ago
> Apple will switch its default search engine to Bing Speculation, or has there been some indication of this?
- ChuckMcM 13y ago
  Given Apple's response to Maps, doesn't it seem as likely that they are building their own replacement?
  - anon1385 13y ago
    I can't imagine they would build their own search engine from scratch. Something that is a front end to existing search services seems far more likely. You are in a much better position than most of us to know if they have been attempting such negotiations… You should be careful what you say at this point; there will be posts on the apple rumour blogs before you know what is happening ;)
  - Oletros 13y ago
    I think that making a search engine is orders of magnitude complex than making a new maps backend.
    - ChuckMcM 13y ago
      Can you say a bit about why you think that? Are we talking decimal orders of magnitude? binary?
ChuckMcM 13y ago
The flaw in this reasoning is that just because Google kills a product it doesn't kill the protocol underneath it. Killing off Blogger won't kill Tumblr, or Wordpress for that matter. It will make it possible to create value in that space again though since Google will have left. Google cannot "kill" RSS, they can only kill Reader, and if people are so dependent on Reader then someone will make a Reader replacement that makes them enough money to keep it running. If nobody can do that, then the business model for Reader (and RSS for that matter) is in doubt.
haberdasher 13y ago
This article is vapid. "It's almost as if Google wants to end the document-centric open web as we have known it." Actually, if this happened, Google's $40B+ in revenue would approach zero. On Reader: Every week there's a new Reader replacement that pops up. I think in a year or two, Google Reader being shutdown will be seen as a positive thing for RSS. "Apple will switch its default search engine to Bing....The web is a forest, and Google is burning it." Maybe Apple will do this. It's possible though very unlikely considering Google's ability to monetize search and Microsoft investors' disappointment at losses in the Live division, but that's still not a move that immediately destroys Google. Again, this article is completely vapid.
- chmars 13y ago
  I haven't found a single Google Reader replacement so far. Sure, there are many alternatives for a subset of Google Reader's feature set but there is not a single full alternative so far. Google Reader is - soon was – not only a web GUI to subscribe to and read RSS feeds, it was also a search engine, an API for apps and until recently a social network.
  - UberMouse 13y ago
    I'm not really familiar with the parts of Google Reader that weren't just viewing RSS feeds, but have you looked at NewsBlur? I believe it has an API for apps and it has some sort of social network.
    - chmars 13y ago
      I have a paid NewsBlur subscription but rarely use it. There is an iOS app but it isn't comparable with Reeder and offline support in particular is missing. An API exist in theory but isn't used by other apps and services. The web GUI of Newsblur itself isn't performant and user-friendly IMHO, it reminds me of an old-style Windows GUI … I'm going with Feedbin (https://feedbin.me/ https://feedbin.me/) and the iPhone version of Reeder (http://reederapp.com/iphone/ http://reederapp.com/iphone/) for the moment. Feedbin's web GUI is very simple but there's hope for progress. And the Reeder developer announced that he plans to add Feedbin support to the iPad and OS X versions of Reeder (http://reederapp.com/reader/ http://reederapp.com/reader/). As a backend for syncing feeds with Reeder on the iPhone, Feedbin has been working well for me so far. (BTW, Feedbin has no official trial but you can use it for three days without getting charged on your credit card.)
icebraining 13y ago
How does Google destroy the web by not supporting open protocols, any more than any other company does? Sure, Google may be dropping XMPP support. Guess what: before Google, no major messaging system supported XMPP or federation! That didn't prevent the open web for existing. All they're doing is reverting to the state before they created those services, back when they only had Search. It's disappointing, yes (though not surprising), but it's no more destroying the open web than not supporting it in the first place would be, like most companies did. Just stop using their services if there are open alternatives, like I did with mail and RSS way before the death of Reader had been announced, and stop portraying Google as some Internet god. It's just a company, people.
- nextw33k 13y ago
  "before Google, no major messaging system supported XMPP or federation!" I think what we are seeing is the end of a poster child. Google has gone from being an engineers dream job to a self serving corporate entity. XMPP could have been made to do what Hangouts is doing, but instead of improving the web as a whole they are just focused on their own platform and profit line. Which is something they are entitled to do, it just sad.
taylodl 13y ago
Yet if Microsoft were in the same position doing the same things the chanting horde would be calling for their heads. Meanwhile Google can do no wrong. Google is in a position where they can greatly affect the usage and adoption of open standards. And increasingly they're subverting open standards. Is that evil? Draw your own conclusions but it was considered evil when Microsoft did it.

20 points by chmars 13y ago

Well ... that implies a long-term strategy with the actor assuming it's a zero-sum game. The other possibility is that Google is simply following a completely economic strategy and that each of the decisions described would end up maximizing their return. I think the real question is "why did we accept so many Beta services, knowing that there was no guarantee they'd be brought to market". If we'd only let them be a search company, would this even be a problem?

Retric 13y ago
We rarely act in our own collective best interest. Rather individuals for a variety of reasons start using Beta services. Many of them end up burned as it shuts down, but far more move on to the next new thing.

kailuowang 13y ago

Very interesting theory. Maybe that's why Microsoft is doing the same to desktop OS? Apple must act quickly to destroy the smartphones.

azakai 13y ago

> Apple will switch its default search engine to Bing Speculation, or has there been some indication of this?

ChuckMcM 13y ago
Given Apple's response to Maps, doesn't it seem as likely that they are building their own replacement?
- anon1385 13y ago
  I can't imagine they would build their own search engine from scratch. Something that is a front end to existing search services seems far more likely. You are in a much better position than most of us to know if they have been attempting such negotiations… You should be careful what you say at this point; there will be posts on the apple rumour blogs before you know what is happening ;)
- Oletros 13y ago
  I think that making a search engine is orders of magnitude complex than making a new maps backend.
  - ChuckMcM 13y ago
    Can you say a bit about why you think that? Are we talking decimal orders of magnitude? binary?

ChuckMcM 13y ago

The flaw in this reasoning is that just because Google kills a product it doesn't kill the protocol underneath it. Killing off Blogger won't kill Tumblr, or Wordpress for that matter. It will make it possible to create value in that space again though since Google will have left. Google cannot "kill" RSS, they can only kill Reader, and if people are so dependent on Reader then someone will make a Reader replacement that makes them enough money to keep it running. If nobody can do that, then the business model for Reader (and RSS for that matter) is in doubt.

haberdasher 13y ago

This article is vapid. "It's almost as if Google wants to end the document-centric open web as we have known it." Actually, if this happened, Google's $40B+ in revenue would approach zero. On Reader: Every week there's a new Reader replacement that pops up. I think in a year or two, Google Reader being shutdown will be seen as a positive thing for RSS. "Apple will switch its default search engine to Bing....The web is a forest, and Google is burning it." Maybe Apple will do this. It's possible though very unlikely considering Google's ability to monetize search and Microsoft investors' disappointment at losses in the Live division, but that's still not a move that immediately destroys Google. Again, this article is completely vapid.

chmars 13y ago
I haven't found a single Google Reader replacement so far. Sure, there are many alternatives for a subset of Google Reader's feature set but there is not a single full alternative so far. Google Reader is - soon was – not only a web GUI to subscribe to and read RSS feeds, it was also a search engine, an API for apps and until recently a social network.
- UberMouse 13y ago
  I'm not really familiar with the parts of Google Reader that weren't just viewing RSS feeds, but have you looked at NewsBlur? I believe it has an API for apps and it has some sort of social network.
  - chmars 13y ago
    I have a paid NewsBlur subscription but rarely use it. There is an iOS app but it isn't comparable with Reeder and offline support in particular is missing. An API exist in theory but isn't used by other apps and services. The web GUI of Newsblur itself isn't performant and user-friendly IMHO, it reminds me of an old-style Windows GUI … I'm going with Feedbin (https://feedbin.me/ https://feedbin.me/) and the iPhone version of Reeder (http://reederapp.com/iphone/ http://reederapp.com/iphone/) for the moment. Feedbin's web GUI is very simple but there's hope for progress. And the Reeder developer announced that he plans to add Feedbin support to the iPad and OS X versions of Reeder (http://reederapp.com/reader/ http://reederapp.com/reader/). As a backend for syncing feeds with Reeder on the iPhone, Feedbin has been working well for me so far. (BTW, Feedbin has no official trial but you can use it for three days without getting charged on your credit card.)

icebraining 13y ago

How does Google destroy the web by not supporting open protocols, any more than any other company does? Sure, Google may be dropping XMPP support. Guess what: before Google, no major messaging system supported XMPP or federation! That didn't prevent the open web for existing. All they're doing is reverting to the state before they created those services, back when they only had Search. It's disappointing, yes (though not surprising), but it's no more destroying the open web than not supporting it in the first place would be, like most companies did. Just stop using their services if there are open alternatives, like I did with mail and RSS way before the death of Reader had been announced, and stop portraying Google as some Internet god. It's just a company, people.

nextw33k 13y ago
"before Google, no major messaging system supported XMPP or federation!" I think what we are seeing is the end of a poster child. Google has gone from being an engineers dream job to a self serving corporate entity. XMPP could have been made to do what Hangouts is doing, but instead of improving the web as a whole they are just focused on their own platform and profit line. Which is something they are entitled to do, it just sad.

taylodl 13y ago

Yet if Microsoft were in the same position doing the same things the chanting horde would be calling for their heads. Meanwhile Google can do no wrong. Google is in a position where they can greatly affect the usage and adoption of open standards. And increasingly they're subverting open standards. Is that evil? Draw your own conclusions but it was considered evil when Microsoft did it.