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I have yet to see another example. Can you provide one?

eru 13y ago
I had mostly the Soviet Union, Communist China and North Korea in mind. Of these, the Soviet Union started there atrocities earlier than Nazi Germany. Some quick web searching gave e.g. this somewhat tasteless list (http://www.toptenz.net/top-10-most-horrific-genocides-in-history.php http://www.toptenz.net/top-10-most-horrific-genocides-in-his...). (The treatment itself is bearable, but just the idea of a top ten of genocides makes me cringe.) Wikipedia has an article as well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_in_history https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_in_history The USA was pretty determined in killing off the natives. Even though they never seemed to have industrialized the process.
- MichaelAza 13y ago
  The Soviet Union was never very industrial about the whole thing. They had camps and all but you can hardly compare a Gulag and a Nazi extermination camp. Gulags were prisons, basically. Extermination camps were... well, extermination camps. China and the DPRK are, to my knowledge, more akin to the Soviet model. People were (and are, in the case of China and the DPRK) dying but it's hardly the arrival-stripping-death sequence of a Nazi camp. In some camps you'd be dead within an hour of arrival. That's crazy efficient and isn't a characteristic of the Soviet, Chinese or Korean camps (to the best of my knowledge)
  - gurkendoktor 13y ago
    Of course it's hard to discuss what's happening inside of China, but this article makes it seem that the Chinese are efficient because they need organs: http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/xinjiang-procedure_610145.html http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/xinjiang-procedure_61... It's the only source for large-scale organ harvest I have found except of course Falun Gong, which I still don't know what to make of.
    - MichaelAza 13y ago
      Yeah, I guess we won't really know whats going on in China until it's all in retrospect, eh?
- philwelch 13y ago
  Sure there were larger and more brutal genocides than that of the Nazis, but the Holocaust was uniquely factory-like in its execution. Every single concentration camp inmate was numbered, processed, seen by a doctor, and tracked on a daily basis.
- bayesianhorse 13y ago
  It's actually hard to get humans to kill other humans with intent and close-up, as can be seen in various examples over history. To kill a few million Humans in short time, shooting was no option. The gas chambers were not much more efficient, but the murderers didn't have to look their victims in the eyes. They were not forced to recognize them as Humans. The story about US and native Americans was completely different. Most deaths occurred from disease and circumstances brought on by settlers and colonists. Many other native Americans were killed while raiding white settlers, or in retribution for raids. It's easier to kill a human being when he is trying to kill you. A lot of harm has been done to native Americans, but the scale, motives and methods were completely different.
  - gurkendoktor 13y ago
    > The gas chambers were not much more efficient, but the murderers didn't have to look their victims in the eyes. They were not forced to recognize them as Humans. But couldn't they still hear them scream, and had to clean up the corpses? I am German and I have never understood why they used Cyclon B. Maybe I just suck at understanding chemical weapons, but it took up to 20 minutes to kill a room full of people, is that even faster then letting them suffocate? Not safe for sanity, but source - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zyklon_B#Use_on_humans http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zyklon_B#Use_on_humans
    - MichaelAza 13y ago
      Could they hear them scream? Depends on the gas chamber in question. In Majdanek, the gas chamber had a viewing port for the operators. In Auschwitz, it was an underground bunker. Did they have to clean up the corpses? Nope, that's what the Sonderkommando were for. Jewish prisoners who cleaned up the corpses and operated the crematoriums. Why they used Zyklon B - god only knows, but they didn't use just Zyklon B. They also used carbon monoxide and car exhaust gas quite frequently (mainly on the eastern front and early on in the war)
    - bayesianhorse 13y ago
      I still don't believe it is harder than shooting from a human point of view. In World War I there are several accounts of soldiers being trained to kill, put in a situation were an enemy is shooting at them, and they still can't pull the trigger.

eru 13y ago

I had mostly the Soviet Union, Communist China and North Korea in mind. Of these, the Soviet Union started there atrocities earlier than Nazi Germany. Some quick web searching gave e.g. this somewhat tasteless list (http://www.toptenz.net/top-10-most-horrific-genocides-in-history.php http://www.toptenz.net/top-10-most-horrific-genocides-in-his...). (The treatment itself is bearable, but just the idea of a top ten of genocides makes me cringe.) Wikipedia has an article as well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_in_history https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_in_history The USA was pretty determined in killing off the natives. Even though they never seemed to have industrialized the process.

MichaelAza 13y ago
The Soviet Union was never very industrial about the whole thing. They had camps and all but you can hardly compare a Gulag and a Nazi extermination camp. Gulags were prisons, basically. Extermination camps were... well, extermination camps. China and the DPRK are, to my knowledge, more akin to the Soviet model. People were (and are, in the case of China and the DPRK) dying but it's hardly the arrival-stripping-death sequence of a Nazi camp. In some camps you'd be dead within an hour of arrival. That's crazy efficient and isn't a characteristic of the Soviet, Chinese or Korean camps (to the best of my knowledge)
- gurkendoktor 13y ago
  Of course it's hard to discuss what's happening inside of China, but this article makes it seem that the Chinese are efficient because they need organs: http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/xinjiang-procedure_610145.html http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/xinjiang-procedure_61... It's the only source for large-scale organ harvest I have found except of course Falun Gong, which I still don't know what to make of.
  - MichaelAza 13y ago
    Yeah, I guess we won't really know whats going on in China until it's all in retrospect, eh?
philwelch 13y ago
Sure there were larger and more brutal genocides than that of the Nazis, but the Holocaust was uniquely factory-like in its execution. Every single concentration camp inmate was numbered, processed, seen by a doctor, and tracked on a daily basis.
bayesianhorse 13y ago
It's actually hard to get humans to kill other humans with intent and close-up, as can be seen in various examples over history. To kill a few million Humans in short time, shooting was no option. The gas chambers were not much more efficient, but the murderers didn't have to look their victims in the eyes. They were not forced to recognize them as Humans. The story about US and native Americans was completely different. Most deaths occurred from disease and circumstances brought on by settlers and colonists. Many other native Americans were killed while raiding white settlers, or in retribution for raids. It's easier to kill a human being when he is trying to kill you. A lot of harm has been done to native Americans, but the scale, motives and methods were completely different.
- gurkendoktor 13y ago
  > The gas chambers were not much more efficient, but the murderers didn't have to look their victims in the eyes. They were not forced to recognize them as Humans. But couldn't they still hear them scream, and had to clean up the corpses? I am German and I have never understood why they used Cyclon B. Maybe I just suck at understanding chemical weapons, but it took up to 20 minutes to kill a room full of people, is that even faster then letting them suffocate? Not safe for sanity, but source - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zyklon_B#Use_on_humans http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zyklon_B#Use_on_humans
  - MichaelAza 13y ago
    Could they hear them scream? Depends on the gas chamber in question. In Majdanek, the gas chamber had a viewing port for the operators. In Auschwitz, it was an underground bunker. Did they have to clean up the corpses? Nope, that's what the Sonderkommando were for. Jewish prisoners who cleaned up the corpses and operated the crematoriums. Why they used Zyklon B - god only knows, but they didn't use just Zyklon B. They also used carbon monoxide and car exhaust gas quite frequently (mainly on the eastern front and early on in the war)
  - bayesianhorse 13y ago
    I still don't believe it is harder than shooting from a human point of view. In World War I there are several accounts of soldiers being trained to kill, put in a situation were an enemy is shooting at them, and they still can't pull the trigger.