4 ms·

Personally, I always associated the WW2-era efficiency (perceived or otherwise) with Fascist Italy, rather than Nazi Germany -- "Mussolini made the trains run o

by jmduke 13y ago

Personally, I always associated the WW2-era efficiency (perceived or otherwise) with Fascist Italy, rather than Nazi Germany -- "Mussolini made the trains run on time" and all that.

adamors 13y ago
> Stalinist Italy wat
- jmduke 13y ago
  Oof, the better word would have been Fascist -- still, Stalinist is a pretty acceptable adjective (at least according to my way-back-when history professors.)
  - saraid216 13y ago
    ...acceptable? Confusing them is like saying ultraviolet is infrared. They're both non-visible, sure, but for completely different reasons because they're on completely different extremes.
    - mseebach 13y ago
      Different, yes, not "completely different extremes". It's fruitless to try to place communism, stalinism, fascism and nazism on any kind of scale of political ideologies that makes sense in the decidedly more moderate political climate of today. Their uniting feature of crushing totalitarianism completely overshadows the comparatively minor differences in political ideology. The Soviet Union had the victors privilege of writing the history, and they wrote it in a way that pitted pure and good communism against singularly evil nazism and fascism - completely ignoring the point that the they had been allies just a few years earlier, and that Mussolini started out as a socialist.
      - saraid216 13y ago
        > Their uniting feature of being invisible completely overshadows the comparatively minor differences in wavelength. Fixed that for you. Congrats on illustrating my point. I mean, are we really trying to argue that communism makes the trains run on time? In our "more moderate political climate of today", are we just incapable of using the word "totalitarianism"? Are we, as a culture, so laughable under-educated that we don't know what it means and can't use it in favor of butchering nuanced history? Okay, I guess that's actually true. Carry on.
        mseebach 13y ago
        I have no idea what you're trying to say. I responded to your assertion that stalinism and fascism are "completely different extremes".
        saraid216 13y ago
        I claimed X != Y. You then decided to lump X and Y together as The Bad Guys because of Z. I'm complaining that people are so ignorant that they can't seem to use the word Z and instead prefer X+Y.
    - eru 13y ago
      Actually, reds, black and browns are not too far apart in practice. (The Germans were called National _Socialists_ after all.)
      - saraid216 13y ago
        And North Korea is a bastion of democracy, as evidenced by the name of their government.
      - rangibaby 13y ago
        "Communism is not Socialism. Marxism is not Socialism. The Marxians have stolen the term and confused its meaning. I shall take Socialism away from the Socialists." - Adolf Hitler, 1923 http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardian/2007/sep/17/greatinterviews1 http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardian/2007/sep/17/greatinter...
Deestan 13y ago
> Stalinist Italy Fascist Italy is a more precise term, if you're thinking of the Mussolini regime.
- jmduke 13y ago
  100% correct -- edited my comment.
eru 13y ago
Only actually, Mussolini's trains ran even less reliable. See http://www.snopes.com/history/govern/trains.asp http://www.snopes.com/history/govern/trains.asp
- a3n 13y ago
  The beauty of being a leader is that when you require metrics to be reported at a certain level, on pain of a bad annual review or a firing squad, then those metrics will almost certainly be reported at the required level or better. Which makes you look good when you report to your leader.

by jmduke 13y ago

Personally, I always associated the WW2-era efficiency (perceived or otherwise) with Fascist Italy, rather than Nazi Germany -- "Mussolini made the trains run on time" and all that.

adamors 13y ago

> Stalinist Italy wat

jmduke 13y ago
Oof, the better word would have been Fascist -- still, Stalinist is a pretty acceptable adjective (at least according to my way-back-when history professors.)
- saraid216 13y ago
  ...acceptable? Confusing them is like saying ultraviolet is infrared. They're both non-visible, sure, but for completely different reasons because they're on completely different extremes.
  - mseebach 13y ago
    Different, yes, not "completely different extremes". It's fruitless to try to place communism, stalinism, fascism and nazism on any kind of scale of political ideologies that makes sense in the decidedly more moderate political climate of today. Their uniting feature of crushing totalitarianism completely overshadows the comparatively minor differences in political ideology. The Soviet Union had the victors privilege of writing the history, and they wrote it in a way that pitted pure and good communism against singularly evil nazism and fascism - completely ignoring the point that the they had been allies just a few years earlier, and that Mussolini started out as a socialist.
    - saraid216 13y ago
      > Their uniting feature of being invisible completely overshadows the comparatively minor differences in wavelength. Fixed that for you. Congrats on illustrating my point. I mean, are we really trying to argue that communism makes the trains run on time? In our "more moderate political climate of today", are we just incapable of using the word "totalitarianism"? Are we, as a culture, so laughable under-educated that we don't know what it means and can't use it in favor of butchering nuanced history? Okay, I guess that's actually true. Carry on.
      - mseebach 13y ago
        I have no idea what you're trying to say. I responded to your assertion that stalinism and fascism are "completely different extremes".
        saraid216 13y ago
        I claimed X != Y. You then decided to lump X and Y together as The Bad Guys because of Z. I'm complaining that people are so ignorant that they can't seem to use the word Z and instead prefer X+Y.
  - eru 13y ago
    Actually, reds, black and browns are not too far apart in practice. (The Germans were called National _Socialists_ after all.)
    - saraid216 13y ago
      And North Korea is a bastion of democracy, as evidenced by the name of their government.
    - rangibaby 13y ago
      "Communism is not Socialism. Marxism is not Socialism. The Marxians have stolen the term and confused its meaning. I shall take Socialism away from the Socialists." - Adolf Hitler, 1923 http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardian/2007/sep/17/greatinterviews1 http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardian/2007/sep/17/greatinter...

Deestan 13y ago

> Stalinist Italy Fascist Italy is a more precise term, if you're thinking of the Mussolini regime.

jmduke 13y ago
100% correct -- edited my comment.

eru 13y ago

Only actually, Mussolini's trains ran even less reliable. See http://www.snopes.com/history/govern/trains.asp http://www.snopes.com/history/govern/trains.asp

a3n 13y ago
The beauty of being a leader is that when you require metrics to be reported at a certain level, on pain of a bad annual review or a firing squad, then those metrics will almost certainly be reported at the required level or better. Which makes you look good when you report to your leader.