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Those two sentences say a lot more to those of us who have used PHP extensively. This is especially true for those of us who have had to maintain relatively old

Those two sentences say a lot more to those of us who have used PHP extensively. This is especially true for those of us who have had to maintain relatively old PHP applications developed by numerous (often inexperienced) developers over the course of many years. And it says even more to those of us who also have had many years of experience with other, better tools.

sbarre 13y ago
Sound like you need to hate the players, and not the game... Sorry if that's cliche, but your justification sounds more like it is rooted in your experience with badly developed programs, not so much a bad language. I've been working with PHP for a long time. I've worked with other languages as well, but for the last 10 years career-wise PHP has been my bread and butter. And I've seen plenty of bad PHP as well, I absolutely don't deny that. As one of the most popular and most accessible languages out there, it's inevitable that lots of beginners will produce low quality code. But I've also seen plenty of very good PHP code. I've worked on quite a few large-scale PHP projects that were delivered on time and on budget, have maintained good performance under extremely high loads, and have had no security issues over years of time in production environments (including banking and automotive). Want to know why? Because we wrote the applications properly, we tested them well, and we knew what we were doing. I'm sure equivalent teams can do just as well with Java or .NET (or whatever else), but our stack expertise is with PHP, so that's what we choose because that's what we are best with. Any tool in the hands of a bad craftsman will produce shoddy results. And as I said before, PHP's popularity is certainly a dual-edged sword, but I believe the good outweighs the bad... So unless you can name some magical framework or language that can prevent mediocre or inexperienced developers from making mistakes or producing bad code, I think you're being narrow-minded and unfair in your criticisms..
- Joeboy 13y ago
  > Sound like you need to hate the players, and not the game... Hating the players seems like a reasonable reason to avoid the game.

sbarre 13y ago

Sound like you need to hate the players, and not the game... Sorry if that's cliche, but your justification sounds more like it is rooted in your experience with badly developed programs, not so much a bad language. I've been working with PHP for a long time. I've worked with other languages as well, but for the last 10 years career-wise PHP has been my bread and butter. And I've seen plenty of bad PHP as well, I absolutely don't deny that. As one of the most popular and most accessible languages out there, it's inevitable that lots of beginners will produce low quality code. But I've also seen plenty of very good PHP code. I've worked on quite a few large-scale PHP projects that were delivered on time and on budget, have maintained good performance under extremely high loads, and have had no security issues over years of time in production environments (including banking and automotive). Want to know why? Because we wrote the applications properly, we tested them well, and we knew what we were doing. I'm sure equivalent teams can do just as well with Java or .NET (or whatever else), but our stack expertise is with PHP, so that's what we choose because that's what we are best with. Any tool in the hands of a bad craftsman will produce shoddy results. And as I said before, PHP's popularity is certainly a dual-edged sword, but I believe the good outweighs the bad... So unless you can name some magical framework or language that can prevent mediocre or inexperienced developers from making mistakes or producing bad code, I think you're being narrow-minded and unfair in your criticisms..

Joeboy 13y ago
> Sound like you need to hate the players, and not the game... Hating the players seems like a reasonable reason to avoid the game.