4 ms·

Speaking as a Canadian who has worked on a H1B visa in California, the "Low Taxes" claim on this billboard is laughably deceptive. See e.g. http://lsminsurance

by jbarham 13y ago

Speaking as a Canadian who has worked on a H1B visa in California, the "Low Taxes" claim on this billboard is laughably deceptive. See e.g. http://lsminsurance.ca/calculators/canada/income-tax http://lsminsurance.ca/calculators/canada/income-tax for an income tax calculator for Canada. Note too that unlike in the US, married couples in Canada cannot file joint income tax returns which is a big benefit for H1B workers given that your spouse cannot work (unless they have their own work visa). Sure, corporate income taxes might be lower in Canada, but that's no incentive to move to Canada as an individual. The fact is that there are many more high tech jobs in the US than Canada, salaries are much higher and taxes are lower which translates to a substantially higher take-home income. The catch of course is that you have to be willing to work as an indentured employee on the H1B. FWIW I'm now living in Melbourne, Australia. Comparable tax rates to Canada but with better weather and better health care.

rogerbinns 13y ago
To do a fair calculation you need to measure what your take home pay is after accounting for taxes, health provision, license fees (eg vehicles), equal living circumstances (cost of housing), utilities, cell phone plan, reasonable retirement provision, if applicable child care and education provisions etc. If you intend to stay a while then purchasing power parity should also be taken into account including sales taxes/VAT.
- jbarham 13y ago
  > taxes Higher in Canada, both income and sales > health provision N/a for me since health insurance was a given for every job I had in California > license fees (eg vehicles) Cars are much cheaper to buy and operate in California than Canada > cost of housing FWIW the Canadian housing market is currently in a massive bubble, comparable IMO to where the US was in 2007 (i.e., peaked and on the verge of bursting) > utilities Negligible on a software engineer's salary > cell phone plan More expensive in Canada > reasonable retirement provision Social Security or Canada Pension Plan: Good luck! > child care and education provisions Given that my wife couldn't work in the US it was n/a for me, but we could comfortably afford for her to stay at home when our first son was born.
  - rogerbinns 13y ago
    The health provision is a big expense, especially as it comes in the taxes column in Canada (and most civilized countries). In California your taxes include health provision for others (disability, medicare/aid) but not you. Even if health provision is given in California by your employer, that is many hundreds of dollars a month that could otherwise go to your salary. The Californian housing market has been in a bubble for decades! I just compared the Bay Area with Vancouver, and the latter is considerably cheaper, at least half price.
    - jbarham 13y ago
      > I just compared the Bay Area with Vancouver, and the latter is considerably cheaper, at least half price. How exactly did you arrive at that conclusion considering that according to The Economist, Vancouver is the most expensive city in North America: http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/02/06/vancouver-most-expensive-city-to-live-economist_n_2631806.html http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/02/06/vancouver-most-expen... For anyone interested in doing an objective comparison between the cost of renting a 2-bedroom apartment in Vancouver vs. California, here are some links: Vancouver: http://vancouver.kijiji.ca/f-real-estate-apartments-condos-2-bedroom-Vancouver-W0QQCatIdZ214QQLocationZ1700287 http://vancouver.kijiji.ca/f-real-estate-apartments-condos-2... San Jose (Silicon Valley): http://www.rentals.com/California/San-Jose/apartments-property-type-2-beds-1z141yl+1z141y8/ http://www.rentals.com/California/San-Jose/apartments-proper... Irvine (Southern California): http://www.rentals.com/California/Irvine/apartments-property-type-2-beds-1z141yl+1z141y8/ http://www.rentals.com/California/Irvine/apartments-property...
      - rogerbinns 13y ago
        > How exactly did you arrive at that conclusion ... Did a Google search for Vancouver rentals, clicked on the first 3 results, verified that it was Vancouver Canada and not Washington state, and then clicked around the maps/listings. The first two links do seem to indicate Vancouver being cheaper than San Jose when eyeballing it, but you'd need a data export or graphs of dollars per square foot averages to be fully comparable. BTW I picked Vancouver because it is on the west coast as is the bay area. Some indications are that Toronto would be a better choice, and perhaps compared to Chicago or NYC instead. > ... according to The Economist, Vancouver is the most expensive city in North America ... Note that they are measuring the cost of living, not the price of accommodation although the latter should account for a large amount of the former. You also have to be careful what is being compared - for example they list Colombo (which I'm personally familiar with) amongst the 20 cheapest, but that certainly isn't the case for a lifestyle equivalent to the bay area, and cars are eyewateringly expensive there due to import duties (around 5 times the price in the US!)
beagle3 13y ago
When you compare taxes in California to Canada, do you take state taxes into account? because, e.g. NYC these days is 48% (35% federal + 8% state + 5% city), which is comparable to many other countries that provide 10 times as much in services for those taxes.
- eurleif 13y ago
  >48% (35% federal + 8% state + 5% city) You can deduct state and local income tax from your federal income tax, so the combined rate should be less than that.
  - beagle3 13y ago
    AMT is 28%, so past some level of active income, you never go below 41% even with those deductions (which are not always possible, despite the "common knowledge" about it. Oh, and AMT trumps childcare, mortgage interest and almost any other deduction as well).

by jbarham 13y ago

rogerbinns 13y ago

To do a fair calculation you need to measure what your take home pay is after accounting for taxes, health provision, license fees (eg vehicles), equal living circumstances (cost of housing), utilities, cell phone plan, reasonable retirement provision, if applicable child care and education provisions etc. If you intend to stay a while then purchasing power parity should also be taken into account including sales taxes/VAT.

jbarham 13y ago
> taxes Higher in Canada, both income and sales > health provision N/a for me since health insurance was a given for every job I had in California > license fees (eg vehicles) Cars are much cheaper to buy and operate in California than Canada > cost of housing FWIW the Canadian housing market is currently in a massive bubble, comparable IMO to where the US was in 2007 (i.e., peaked and on the verge of bursting) > utilities Negligible on a software engineer's salary > cell phone plan More expensive in Canada > reasonable retirement provision Social Security or Canada Pension Plan: Good luck! > child care and education provisions Given that my wife couldn't work in the US it was n/a for me, but we could comfortably afford for her to stay at home when our first son was born.
- rogerbinns 13y ago
  The health provision is a big expense, especially as it comes in the taxes column in Canada (and most civilized countries). In California your taxes include health provision for others (disability, medicare/aid) but not you. Even if health provision is given in California by your employer, that is many hundreds of dollars a month that could otherwise go to your salary. The Californian housing market has been in a bubble for decades! I just compared the Bay Area with Vancouver, and the latter is considerably cheaper, at least half price.
  - jbarham 13y ago
    > I just compared the Bay Area with Vancouver, and the latter is considerably cheaper, at least half price. How exactly did you arrive at that conclusion considering that according to The Economist, Vancouver is the most expensive city in North America: http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/02/06/vancouver-most-expensive-city-to-live-economist_n_2631806.html http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/02/06/vancouver-most-expen... For anyone interested in doing an objective comparison between the cost of renting a 2-bedroom apartment in Vancouver vs. California, here are some links: Vancouver: http://vancouver.kijiji.ca/f-real-estate-apartments-condos-2-bedroom-Vancouver-W0QQCatIdZ214QQLocationZ1700287 http://vancouver.kijiji.ca/f-real-estate-apartments-condos-2... San Jose (Silicon Valley): http://www.rentals.com/California/San-Jose/apartments-property-type-2-beds-1z141yl+1z141y8/ http://www.rentals.com/California/San-Jose/apartments-proper... Irvine (Southern California): http://www.rentals.com/California/Irvine/apartments-property-type-2-beds-1z141yl+1z141y8/ http://www.rentals.com/California/Irvine/apartments-property...
    - rogerbinns 13y ago
      > How exactly did you arrive at that conclusion ... Did a Google search for Vancouver rentals, clicked on the first 3 results, verified that it was Vancouver Canada and not Washington state, and then clicked around the maps/listings. The first two links do seem to indicate Vancouver being cheaper than San Jose when eyeballing it, but you'd need a data export or graphs of dollars per square foot averages to be fully comparable. BTW I picked Vancouver because it is on the west coast as is the bay area. Some indications are that Toronto would be a better choice, and perhaps compared to Chicago or NYC instead. > ... according to The Economist, Vancouver is the most expensive city in North America ... Note that they are measuring the cost of living, not the price of accommodation although the latter should account for a large amount of the former. You also have to be careful what is being compared - for example they list Colombo (which I'm personally familiar with) amongst the 20 cheapest, but that certainly isn't the case for a lifestyle equivalent to the bay area, and cars are eyewateringly expensive there due to import duties (around 5 times the price in the US!)

beagle3 13y ago

When you compare taxes in California to Canada, do you take state taxes into account? because, e.g. NYC these days is 48% (35% federal + 8% state + 5% city), which is comparable to many other countries that provide 10 times as much in services for those taxes.

eurleif 13y ago
>48% (35% federal + 8% state + 5% city) You can deduct state and local income tax from your federal income tax, so the combined rate should be less than that.
- beagle3 13y ago
  AMT is 28%, so past some level of active income, you never go below 41% even with those deductions (which are not always possible, despite the "common knowledge" about it. Oh, and AMT trumps childcare, mortgage interest and almost any other deduction as well).