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What do you think are the main potential areas for improvement in the field? Is there potential for more automation? It sounds like a fascinating job, those c

What do you think are the main potential areas for improvement in the field? Is there potential for more automation? It sounds like a fascinating job, those cranes look really cool.

raymondduke 13y ago
Automation is coming, without a doubt. The problem right now is implementation. A lot of the terminals have had computer screens with GPS that either don't work or are way too faulty. The terminal I worked at today ordered several new automated cranes this year (video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdMMDjPPILE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdMMDjPPILE) but they didn't have the power to support them; so now they are digging up the pavement in order to supply more power. It's a giant mess. Main improvements would be a better implementation, obviously, but also a better line of communication between companies and workers. I wrote a piece of Medium (https://medium.com/labor-related/188796b758d https://medium.com/labor-related/188796b758d) about how they hired 18,000 new workers in the late 90's; which would normally be a very good thing but 80% of those workers are still on temp status (including me). Temp status (i.e., a Casual) doesn't earn a pension, get benefits, or have any of the other perks of a regular worker. I might be getting off-topic a little here, but an improvement to the ports would include a better line of communication between workers and companies instead of trying to turn the port into a giant conveyor belt. I'm not so skeptical to think that a good paying blue collar job will exist forever, but there is an extreme level of efficiency that happens when you put human minds behind big tasks instead of leaving it up to computers. Here is another panoramic pic of when I worked rails: http://i.imgur.com/V1Sficm.jpg http://i.imgur.com/V1Sficm.jpg. Those giant four legged things move back and forth over the wells. The machine I was in moves along side the tracks and allows you to hop on and off the containers to take cones on or off.
- mc-lovin 13y ago
  Could you shed some light on the strange employment structure in your industry? My impression is that unions in this industry are a combination of the bad (artificially restricting the supply of labor, to the benefit of union members, and the detriment of non members) and good (giving workers to power to maintain safety standards, and making sure that workers feel they can trust their fellow workers). What limits communication? Is it the fact that a lot of the workers are temp workers, or is it unrelated?
  - raymondduke 13y ago
    Sure. I'll do my best to clear things up. Unions are a combination of bad and good, just like corporations, franchises, and any other organization. One of the major flaws of the union for me is that you can't get promoted on the job based on merit. The only way to get a raise and to get more work is to work more, not harder or smarter. When I work on the docks, I work steady and safe. Maybe this is actually a good thing because it is a dangerous place to work and they don't want anyone trying to be a hotshot. As for the good, there is a sense of organization and community beyond anything I've experienced before in my life. There are about 5,000 Casuals and we all know that we are part time temp labor, so we all do what we can to help one another. Things like powerball pools, buying and selling or services or other part time hustles (plumbing, towing, hanging tvs', etc.), and various other community related things are common. Things that limit communication: The ones that make the decisions that affect us all, are doing so in their best interest and not the interest of the port or for the economy. For example, fully automated ports move cargo at only around 30% of what we do, but since they don't have to pay pensions for the machine or give them benefits, it's worth the slower move time. As for the union, there is not a long term strategy for the future of its workers at the port. A majority of casuals don't even know what the union President's name is. It's kind of ironic that the actual job is the most organized thing I've seen (for example, we can unload over 3,000 cars from a ship in about 6 hours), but the organization process for the port itself, is awful. These are just my opinions as of this moment. It's possible I could just simply be completely in the dark or not doing a good enough job of finding out the answers.
- kyllo 13y ago
  Hey. I worked at a major steamship line for five years. The coolest part was watching the ships come into the terminal and get worked by the longshoremen. It's still a dangerous job though. Someone gets badly hurt or killed at the port here once every year or two. Ever heard of Euromax in the Netherlands? Not a single human on the docks there most of the time. The entire terminal is robotic now. Just a few engineers up in a control tower, to make sure the computers keep running. That won't happen in the US for a long time, though. The ILA and ILWU have a lot of political power.
  - raymondduke 13y ago
    I have heard of fully automated ports, but not Euromax in particular. I suppose the ILWU and ILA do have a lot of political power when you compare them to other ports. But from my perspective, we are losing more and more ground each day. Since a majority of the workers are temps who can't get involved with meetings and other "official bidness", then I don't know who will take the reigns 10-20 years from now. Did you keep up to date with what happened in Hong Kong?
    - kyllo 13y ago
      I wasn't really following it, but I see they had to strike for six weeks to get a 9.8% pay raise to keep up with inflation. I believe they probably did need it just for that reason, Hong Kong is a crazy expensive place to live. I feel bad for longshoremen in Asia, they have more dangerous conditions and weaker unions, so it's much harder for them to get reasonable pay and benefits. And the rate of inflation/cost of living is getting crazy in China and Hong Kong.

What do you think are the main potential areas for improvement in the field? Is there potential for more automation? It sounds like a fascinating job, those cranes look really cool.

raymondduke 13y ago

Automation is coming, without a doubt. The problem right now is implementation. A lot of the terminals have had computer screens with GPS that either don't work or are way too faulty. The terminal I worked at today ordered several new automated cranes this year (video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdMMDjPPILE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdMMDjPPILE) but they didn't have the power to support them; so now they are digging up the pavement in order to supply more power. It's a giant mess. Main improvements would be a better implementation, obviously, but also a better line of communication between companies and workers. I wrote a piece of Medium (https://medium.com/labor-related/188796b758d https://medium.com/labor-related/188796b758d) about how they hired 18,000 new workers in the late 90's; which would normally be a very good thing but 80% of those workers are still on temp status (including me). Temp status (i.e., a Casual) doesn't earn a pension, get benefits, or have any of the other perks of a regular worker. I might be getting off-topic a little here, but an improvement to the ports would include a better line of communication between workers and companies instead of trying to turn the port into a giant conveyor belt. I'm not so skeptical to think that a good paying blue collar job will exist forever, but there is an extreme level of efficiency that happens when you put human minds behind big tasks instead of leaving it up to computers. Here is another panoramic pic of when I worked rails: http://i.imgur.com/V1Sficm.jpg http://i.imgur.com/V1Sficm.jpg. Those giant four legged things move back and forth over the wells. The machine I was in moves along side the tracks and allows you to hop on and off the containers to take cones on or off.

mc-lovin 13y ago
Could you shed some light on the strange employment structure in your industry? My impression is that unions in this industry are a combination of the bad (artificially restricting the supply of labor, to the benefit of union members, and the detriment of non members) and good (giving workers to power to maintain safety standards, and making sure that workers feel they can trust their fellow workers). What limits communication? Is it the fact that a lot of the workers are temp workers, or is it unrelated?
- raymondduke 13y ago
  Sure. I'll do my best to clear things up. Unions are a combination of bad and good, just like corporations, franchises, and any other organization. One of the major flaws of the union for me is that you can't get promoted on the job based on merit. The only way to get a raise and to get more work is to work more, not harder or smarter. When I work on the docks, I work steady and safe. Maybe this is actually a good thing because it is a dangerous place to work and they don't want anyone trying to be a hotshot. As for the good, there is a sense of organization and community beyond anything I've experienced before in my life. There are about 5,000 Casuals and we all know that we are part time temp labor, so we all do what we can to help one another. Things like powerball pools, buying and selling or services or other part time hustles (plumbing, towing, hanging tvs', etc.), and various other community related things are common. Things that limit communication: The ones that make the decisions that affect us all, are doing so in their best interest and not the interest of the port or for the economy. For example, fully automated ports move cargo at only around 30% of what we do, but since they don't have to pay pensions for the machine or give them benefits, it's worth the slower move time. As for the union, there is not a long term strategy for the future of its workers at the port. A majority of casuals don't even know what the union President's name is. It's kind of ironic that the actual job is the most organized thing I've seen (for example, we can unload over 3,000 cars from a ship in about 6 hours), but the organization process for the port itself, is awful. These are just my opinions as of this moment. It's possible I could just simply be completely in the dark or not doing a good enough job of finding out the answers.
kyllo 13y ago
Hey. I worked at a major steamship line for five years. The coolest part was watching the ships come into the terminal and get worked by the longshoremen. It's still a dangerous job though. Someone gets badly hurt or killed at the port here once every year or two. Ever heard of Euromax in the Netherlands? Not a single human on the docks there most of the time. The entire terminal is robotic now. Just a few engineers up in a control tower, to make sure the computers keep running. That won't happen in the US for a long time, though. The ILA and ILWU have a lot of political power.
- raymondduke 13y ago
  I have heard of fully automated ports, but not Euromax in particular. I suppose the ILWU and ILA do have a lot of political power when you compare them to other ports. But from my perspective, we are losing more and more ground each day. Since a majority of the workers are temps who can't get involved with meetings and other "official bidness", then I don't know who will take the reigns 10-20 years from now. Did you keep up to date with what happened in Hong Kong?
  - kyllo 13y ago
    I wasn't really following it, but I see they had to strike for six weeks to get a 9.8% pay raise to keep up with inflation. I believe they probably did need it just for that reason, Hong Kong is a crazy expensive place to live. I feel bad for longshoremen in Asia, they have more dangerous conditions and weaker unions, so it's much harder for them to get reasonable pay and benefits. And the rate of inflation/cost of living is getting crazy in China and Hong Kong.