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Yet another weekly post saying the same thing about completion numbers, the only argument they have. According to this argument, 1500 students from all nations

Yet another weekly post saying the same thing about completion numbers, the only argument they have. According to this argument, 1500 students from all nations of the earth successfully completing a CS class at Harvard, provided at absolutely no cost to them, is a complete failure. Meanwhile they don't mention how the schools they represent have programming weeder classes with 900 people enrolled at the start and 100 at the end. This is considered OK since 800 officially dropped the class and the class is supposed to be tough. Every week, the same argument. If 90% completed the class the exact same people would write their PR articles claiming that the classes have failed for not being rigorous enough.

akharris 13y ago
Author here - that's not at all what I said. I'm saying these courses set their own standard of measurement, and haven't lived up to it yet. They're iterating by bringing in different support systems to raise completion rates. I hope the MOOC model succeeds, but it's a long way from fulfilling its promise thus far.
- droithomme 13y ago
  > I'm saying these courses set their own standard of measurement No, you are claiming that and saying that that is their standard. It's a straw man, which is a dishonest form of argument. Your arguments here are without merit. If you want to succeed with your tutoring company you need to establish yourself as a reliable and honest person, not someone trotting out absurd self serving arguments attacking other ventures that you incorrectly and very foolishly see as your enemy. To succeed focus on your product, make it good, and show how it benefits people and is worth paying for. Focusing on these other people instead is a waste of your time and shows that you presently don't understand either what to do to succeed in your own market, or how to run a startup business. You might take what I am saying as criticism, but it is highly targeted and good advice. You should think about it. Ignore it at your own peril.
  - cinquemb 13y ago
    Exactly. People seem to expect that MOOCs/or the like are for the same old feed-people-into-the-system. It's like people can't see the glass houses around them with all the stones flying around, to see that something else will emerge when their glass house shatters and not somebody elses. Long student loan defaults and tuition hikes.
- barryfandango 13y ago
  I'm currently halfway through "Introduction to Improvisation" on Coursera, offered through Berklee college and taught by the great Gary Burton. The enrollment is around 39,000 and I'm sure the completion will be low. People worldwide and of all skill levels are welcome to ignore the prerequisite guidelines and there's no cost to sign up. I bet twenty thousand didn't make it past week one - either discovering how difficult the class is, or losing interest since they only signed up on a whim anyway. This low barrier to entry probably inflates enrollment considerably compared to a traditional school. There is a human element you did not address in your article. The discussion forum for the class is very active and full of enthusiastic students helping each other, asking questions, sharing resources, posting recordings of their music work, providing suggestions to the Coursera staff about curriculum improvements (many of which have been implemented already.) So it's not all robots.
Isamu 13y ago
I really enjoy signing up for classes out of curiosity, trying them out, and then dropping the ones that are a poor fit or that I don't have time for. Being able to do this has been liberating and I suspect many do this. I dropped one class because I was unimpressed with the professor, although I still want to take the subject. There are many subjects that I have an interest in, and I might sign up for, but with a low enough threshold of interest I might be inclined to drop unless it is a pretty good class. In the end I suspect it will help the teachers improve their game, especially if there enough classes that there starts to be some competition.
revelation 13y ago
I always thought that was a weak argument. The barrier to starting a course is very low, basically entering your email and pressing a button. It's also free. Of course the "dropout rate" is going to be very high. That said, most people can't even bother to make use of their gym membership, and they are paying hard cash for it.

akharris 13y ago

Author here - that's not at all what I said. I'm saying these courses set their own standard of measurement, and haven't lived up to it yet. They're iterating by bringing in different support systems to raise completion rates. I hope the MOOC model succeeds, but it's a long way from fulfilling its promise thus far.

droithomme 13y ago
> I'm saying these courses set their own standard of measurement No, you are claiming that and saying that that is their standard. It's a straw man, which is a dishonest form of argument. Your arguments here are without merit. If you want to succeed with your tutoring company you need to establish yourself as a reliable and honest person, not someone trotting out absurd self serving arguments attacking other ventures that you incorrectly and very foolishly see as your enemy. To succeed focus on your product, make it good, and show how it benefits people and is worth paying for. Focusing on these other people instead is a waste of your time and shows that you presently don't understand either what to do to succeed in your own market, or how to run a startup business. You might take what I am saying as criticism, but it is highly targeted and good advice. You should think about it. Ignore it at your own peril.
- cinquemb 13y ago
  Exactly. People seem to expect that MOOCs/or the like are for the same old feed-people-into-the-system. It's like people can't see the glass houses around them with all the stones flying around, to see that something else will emerge when their glass house shatters and not somebody elses. Long student loan defaults and tuition hikes.
barryfandango 13y ago
I'm currently halfway through "Introduction to Improvisation" on Coursera, offered through Berklee college and taught by the great Gary Burton. The enrollment is around 39,000 and I'm sure the completion will be low. People worldwide and of all skill levels are welcome to ignore the prerequisite guidelines and there's no cost to sign up. I bet twenty thousand didn't make it past week one - either discovering how difficult the class is, or losing interest since they only signed up on a whim anyway. This low barrier to entry probably inflates enrollment considerably compared to a traditional school. There is a human element you did not address in your article. The discussion forum for the class is very active and full of enthusiastic students helping each other, asking questions, sharing resources, posting recordings of their music work, providing suggestions to the Coursera staff about curriculum improvements (many of which have been implemented already.) So it's not all robots.

Isamu 13y ago

I really enjoy signing up for classes out of curiosity, trying them out, and then dropping the ones that are a poor fit or that I don't have time for. Being able to do this has been liberating and I suspect many do this. I dropped one class because I was unimpressed with the professor, although I still want to take the subject. There are many subjects that I have an interest in, and I might sign up for, but with a low enough threshold of interest I might be inclined to drop unless it is a pretty good class. In the end I suspect it will help the teachers improve their game, especially if there enough classes that there starts to be some competition.

revelation 13y ago

I always thought that was a weak argument. The barrier to starting a course is very low, basically entering your email and pressing a button. It's also free. Of course the "dropout rate" is going to be very high. That said, most people can't even bother to make use of their gym membership, and they are paying hard cash for it.