3 ms·

I want to work with more women

12 points by shakes 13y ago

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
anjc 13y ago
10 women out of 40 are women is prrrrobably a higher proportion than most tech companies, no? This strikes me as being a little bit...weird, and could maybe put women off..? Perhaps it could be explained in a more robust manner than saying they have excellent planning skills and have "exceptional minds" as if it's some sort of universal truth. It comes across as sounding artificial and...weird.
hacker789 13y ago
Young men and women of HN: If you apply to Ben Milne's company, he won't be particularly excited if he discovers you have a penis. If he discovers have a vagina, though, he'll be much more excited. Good for you, Ben. As I'm sure many of you have noticed, it's almost always hyper-privileged men who triumphantly make these (and similar) pronouncements. And as always, by urinating on lower-status men, Ben risks very little social standing; his potential social benefits, however, are enormous.
Asparagirl 13y ago
sighs Look, I would not want to work somewhere if there was even the slightest chance that I got the job on account of my gender. I do not want to be some progressive nice guy's feel-good story, I want to be good at what I do. So while I do appreciate this enthusiasm for helping women succeed in tech, I respectfully would ask that the best way to help is to mentor, teach, and advise -- not to make us feel like we've become someone's pet diversity project. I mean, I want to be a great coder someday, not a great woman coder, y'know? In short: help us tap into resources and conferences and classes and seminars where we can hone our skills, and we can take it from there. (Etsy's recent program to develop more female engineers is probably the gold standard to emulate in this regard: http://www.fastcolabs.com/3005681/how-hack-broken-gender-dynamics-workplace http://www.fastcolabs.com/3005681/how-hack-broken-gender-dyn... ) Help us network and hack and build shit. Submit pull requests to our lonely little open source projects. Call other guys out publicly if they act like jerks to us at conferences. Just...please don't blog about how you wish we would come keep you company at your start-up, as if we were elusive butterflies you want to pin to your wall. Also? Every time the "women in tech" conversation happens, the elephant in the living room that no one likes to mention is that women tend to be the primary caregivers for their kids (or later, for their elderly parents, or disabled siblings, etc.). This is true of techie women too, and it totally has an effect on the kinds of jobs we take, and when. Most techie women I know have young kids at home or are planning to have them within the next few years before our biological clocks run out. (I'm 34 and I have two, ages 5 and 2.) Does a start-up like Dwolla offer childcare credits or benefits? Onsite daycare? Emergency nanny services? Because a lot of big companies do this, but a lot of startups have no idea that these benefits even exist, much less offer them to their employees. If I know I'm going to be going back to work full-time after having children, what kind of a company do you think I'm going to look at first, a traditional big company or a start-up? Which one is going to likely offer me better hours and more stability, at a time when my income (and health benefits) are really crucial to other people who are depending upon it? And that's to say nothing of the culture at the company. Do I want to work at some start-up that advertises beer nights and paid company dinners as if they're obvious perks, when I honestly look at them and think that ugh, this is yet more time I would have to spend away from my kids. In short, our priorities may not mesh perfectly with your priorities. :-)
- JoeAltmaier 13y ago
  He really just asked for applications, which were lacking. Not a whiff of any 'quota' or special consideration - just wanting applications. Why do you think they are missing? Women have degrees; women don't apply to program computers. Can you add something to the conversation?
  - Asparagirl 13y ago
    You mean, add something besides the concrete examples I gave of why women might not want to work at a start-up, or the first-hand experiences I noted being the exact demographic he's talking to/about? (Oh HN, don't ever change.)
    - JoeAltmaier 13y ago
      Thanks, yes, like that. But brushing off attempts to hire women as never quite the right attitude, never quite the right job, sounds like making excuses. There are a lot of women. Either few (none) like working at startups, or there's something about the application process that is filtering half the population out. You can just complain that every job offends you somehow, and it might, but what about all the rest who aren't like you?
- room271 13y ago
  I think you have misinterpreted what this guy is about. Aiming to have a good social and cultural mix in the office (and indeed in life) isn't just a 'progressive...feel-good story'; lots of people think it's essential to doing a good job and to being a better person. With a wider range of people you get a wider range of ideas and inputs and people learn to broaden their horizons and experiences. It's a much bigger issue than just 'we need more women in tech'. But the lack of women in tech is especially noticeable and worth fighting against.

12 points by shakes 13y ago

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

anjc 13y ago

10 women out of 40 are women is prrrrobably a higher proportion than most tech companies, no? This strikes me as being a little bit...weird, and could maybe put women off..? Perhaps it could be explained in a more robust manner than saying they have excellent planning skills and have "exceptional minds" as if it's some sort of universal truth. It comes across as sounding artificial and...weird.

hacker789 13y ago

Young men and women of HN: If you apply to Ben Milne's company, he won't be particularly excited if he discovers you have a penis. If he discovers have a vagina, though, he'll be much more excited. Good for you, Ben. As I'm sure many of you have noticed, it's almost always hyper-privileged men who triumphantly make these (and similar) pronouncements. And as always, by urinating on lower-status men, Ben risks very little social standing; his potential social benefits, however, are enormous.

Asparagirl 13y ago

sighs Look, I would not want to work somewhere if there was even the slightest chance that I got the job on account of my gender. I do not want to be some progressive nice guy's feel-good story, I want to be good at what I do. So while I do appreciate this enthusiasm for helping women succeed in tech, I respectfully would ask that the best way to help is to mentor, teach, and advise -- not to make us feel like we've become someone's pet diversity project. I mean, I want to be a great coder someday, not a great woman coder, y'know? In short: help us tap into resources and conferences and classes and seminars where we can hone our skills, and we can take it from there. (Etsy's recent program to develop more female engineers is probably the gold standard to emulate in this regard: http://www.fastcolabs.com/3005681/how-hack-broken-gender-dynamics-workplace http://www.fastcolabs.com/3005681/how-hack-broken-gender-dyn... ) Help us network and hack and build shit. Submit pull requests to our lonely little open source projects. Call other guys out publicly if they act like jerks to us at conferences. Just...please don't blog about how you wish we would come keep you company at your start-up, as if we were elusive butterflies you want to pin to your wall. Also? Every time the "women in tech" conversation happens, the elephant in the living room that no one likes to mention is that women tend to be the primary caregivers for their kids (or later, for their elderly parents, or disabled siblings, etc.). This is true of techie women too, and it totally has an effect on the kinds of jobs we take, and when. Most techie women I know have young kids at home or are planning to have them within the next few years before our biological clocks run out. (I'm 34 and I have two, ages 5 and 2.) Does a start-up like Dwolla offer childcare credits or benefits? Onsite daycare? Emergency nanny services? Because a lot of big companies do this, but a lot of startups have no idea that these benefits even exist, much less offer them to their employees. If I know I'm going to be going back to work full-time after having children, what kind of a company do you think I'm going to look at first, a traditional big company or a start-up? Which one is going to likely offer me better hours and more stability, at a time when my income (and health benefits) are really crucial to other people who are depending upon it? And that's to say nothing of the culture at the company. Do I want to work at some start-up that advertises beer nights and paid company dinners as if they're obvious perks, when I honestly look at them and think that ugh, this is yet more time I would have to spend away from my kids. In short, our priorities may not mesh perfectly with your priorities. :-)

JoeAltmaier 13y ago
He really just asked for applications, which were lacking. Not a whiff of any 'quota' or special consideration - just wanting applications. Why do you think they are missing? Women have degrees; women don't apply to program computers. Can you add something to the conversation?
- Asparagirl 13y ago
  You mean, add something besides the concrete examples I gave of why women might not want to work at a start-up, or the first-hand experiences I noted being the exact demographic he's talking to/about? (Oh HN, don't ever change.)
  - JoeAltmaier 13y ago
    Thanks, yes, like that. But brushing off attempts to hire women as never quite the right attitude, never quite the right job, sounds like making excuses. There are a lot of women. Either few (none) like working at startups, or there's something about the application process that is filtering half the population out. You can just complain that every job offends you somehow, and it might, but what about all the rest who aren't like you?
room271 13y ago
I think you have misinterpreted what this guy is about. Aiming to have a good social and cultural mix in the office (and indeed in life) isn't just a 'progressive...feel-good story'; lots of people think it's essential to doing a good job and to being a better person. With a wider range of people you get a wider range of ideas and inputs and people learn to broaden their horizons and experiences. It's a much bigger issue than just 'we need more women in tech'. But the lack of women in tech is especially noticeable and worth fighting against.