4 ms·

I don't understand what Hangouts is as a product. I have 1 Gmail account and 2 Google Apps accounts. I use Gtalk and have G+ configured on the Gmail, and 1 dom

by buro9 13y ago

I don't understand what Hangouts is as a product. I have 1 Gmail account and 2 Google Apps accounts. I use Gtalk and have G+ configured on the Gmail, and 1 domain has Gtalk enabled and G+ disabled, and the other has both disabled. This morning I installed Hangouts on my Android as I read the press about how this would replace Gtalk and figured I should get used to the interface. What is now displayed confuses me greatly. Is this G+? How come this app is working on the domains on which it is disabled? Is this Gtalk? How come I cannot see/find my Gtalk contacts and my native Gmail account is showing me what I recognise as circles in the place I would expect to see my Gtalk contacts. Where are the archived chats from Gtalk? Still archived in my Gmail? If so, why does this app say I have no archived chats? Will future archived items be in my Gmail? Even for the domains in which G+ is disabled (if, as I'm currently assuming they will actually be in G+ because otherwise it would show the archived chats that are in my Gmail)? The native Gmail seems to allow group chat, but the corporate account doesn't... why? It asked to confirm my number, but doesn't seem to like the fact that all three accounts are 1 number... why? I am the same person, several accounts and 1 phone. I simply don't know what Hangouts is as a product and how the various accounts I have will work or what options should be set where to make it predictable. And just to top off the confusion, my girlfriend has clearly added the app too, as I got a confused email from her and 5 minutes later an email asking me to install Whats App. I feel I've gone from something I knew and had control of, to something that really confuses. I've told my girlfriend to just send me an email or call me... we can both just understand that. Is there some epiphany I'm missing? Edit: This is in the context of someone who is very familiar with the existing/old offerings and used them a fair bit. It's the 'replacing' bit and not being able to see anything familiar or old in the new which makes it confounding.

seiji 13y ago
I don't understand what Hangouts is as a product. It's another huge marketing/branding failure by Google too. They expect the world to learn intimate details of all their crazy products that aren't hinted at by naming. Google loves to hijack short and extremely common words to use as opaque identifiers for products. Examples: "Google Wave" -- meaningless unless you read about it extensively. "Circles" -- takes a while for people to realize it's actually "Google Friend List Where People Can Exist In Multiple Lists At The Same Time." "Google Hangouts" -- okay, "hangout" kinda works, but it feels way too casual. I don't want to "hangout" with most work people. What is it anyway? Video chat? Text chat? A Skype replacement? Mobile messaging focused? People don't really know unless they research it first.
- buro9 13y ago
  I get where you're coming from, but those comments sound anti-Google... and as is clearly evident I choose to use Google for most of my communication, I'm fairly for-Google. I think this is perhaps my fault, I failed to explain in my message that the confusion isn't with the notion of Hangouts as a new product, it's very specifically in context of replacing existing services I know and use, and how I cannot cognitively see the old service in the new, to the degree that I'm now very confused about the whole offering (and am not the only one).
  - seiji 13y ago
    It's not so much anti-google as anti-people-in-ivory-towers-who-think-they-can-unilaterally-do-whatever-they-want. As much as we enjoy reveling in our creepy autistic spectrum ignorance of the world, we do have to integrate with the rest of it.
- thezilch 13y ago
  Examples: "Lamp", "Desk", "Monitor", "Headphones", "Mouse" ... Internets, Googles, Yahoos, Twitters ... WTF are these things asked just about everyone ever You can't name your product "Google Friend List Where People Can Exist In Multiple Lists At The Same Time," just as much as "anti-people-in-ivory-towers-who-think-they-can-unilaterally-do-whatever-they-want" (from your future comment) makes not sense.
bgp 13y ago
I'm missing why it's not replacing the G+ Messenger app (or maybe it is, idk). For some one who's been able to install the new Hangout app - do you also still have the Messenger app as well?
- buro9 13y ago
  Yes, the G+ Messenger app is still there (not that I think I've ever used that more than once or twice).
  - bgp 13y ago
    It's used to start or join hangouts on the mobile side.
Terretta 13y ago
I suspect Google's hiring process, while extraordinary for most of their purposes, is challenged at hiring those with the combination of breadth and depth of experience to prevent this problem. They have to go outside that process to hire full stack tech + 360 degree user experience, which they only do if they pre-determined the hire (thereby bypassing the screens, interviews, and committees, which are made up of depth-first experts who naturally rate based on candidate depth within each interviewer's scope). This selectivity problem (rejection of "Renaissance" women or men) could become increasingly apparent as their products attempt broader and more integrated reach. On the other hand, perhaps management realizes there is an issue, as evidenced by more and more frequently reaching past their defined hiring process to poach pre-selected hires with broader expertise. Maybe this bi-modal hiring is the answer, though their current approach misses out identifying and hiring talented prospects who aren't already valley famous yet could help address the very valid concerns buro9 raises here.
- Terretta 13y ago
  A later HN story suggests this culture is changing: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5727576 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5727576 > http://blog.idonethis.com/post/50579439215/the-most-innovative-employees-at-google-arent http://blog.idonethis.com/post/50579439215/the-most-innovati... But a comment from someone "familiar with the current engineering hiring practices at Google" argues the opposite, along the lines of my concerns above: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5727620 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5727620
bdowney 13y ago
You're not missing anything. Most if not all of your concerns were voiced during the internal dogfooding phase and, as usual for G+ and Vic Gundotra, duly noted and ignored.
- 1010011010 13y ago
  Hey! It's fake bdowney! Who are you really?
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

by buro9 13y ago

seiji 13y ago

I don't understand what Hangouts is as a product. It's another huge marketing/branding failure by Google too. They expect the world to learn intimate details of all their crazy products that aren't hinted at by naming. Google loves to hijack short and extremely common words to use as opaque identifiers for products. Examples: "Google Wave" -- meaningless unless you read about it extensively. "Circles" -- takes a while for people to realize it's actually "Google Friend List Where People Can Exist In Multiple Lists At The Same Time." "Google Hangouts" -- okay, "hangout" kinda works, but it feels way too casual. I don't want to "hangout" with most work people. What is it anyway? Video chat? Text chat? A Skype replacement? Mobile messaging focused? People don't really know unless they research it first.

buro9 13y ago
I get where you're coming from, but those comments sound anti-Google... and as is clearly evident I choose to use Google for most of my communication, I'm fairly for-Google. I think this is perhaps my fault, I failed to explain in my message that the confusion isn't with the notion of Hangouts as a new product, it's very specifically in context of replacing existing services I know and use, and how I cannot cognitively see the old service in the new, to the degree that I'm now very confused about the whole offering (and am not the only one).
- seiji 13y ago
  It's not so much anti-google as anti-people-in-ivory-towers-who-think-they-can-unilaterally-do-whatever-they-want. As much as we enjoy reveling in our creepy autistic spectrum ignorance of the world, we do have to integrate with the rest of it.
thezilch 13y ago
Examples: "Lamp", "Desk", "Monitor", "Headphones", "Mouse" ... Internets, Googles, Yahoos, Twitters ... WTF are these things asked just about everyone ever You can't name your product "Google Friend List Where People Can Exist In Multiple Lists At The Same Time," just as much as "anti-people-in-ivory-towers-who-think-they-can-unilaterally-do-whatever-they-want" (from your future comment) makes not sense.

bgp 13y ago

I'm missing why it's not replacing the G+ Messenger app (or maybe it is, idk). For some one who's been able to install the new Hangout app - do you also still have the Messenger app as well?

buro9 13y ago
Yes, the G+ Messenger app is still there (not that I think I've ever used that more than once or twice).
- bgp 13y ago
  It's used to start or join hangouts on the mobile side.

Terretta 13y ago

I suspect Google's hiring process, while extraordinary for most of their purposes, is challenged at hiring those with the combination of breadth and depth of experience to prevent this problem. They have to go outside that process to hire full stack tech + 360 degree user experience, which they only do if they pre-determined the hire (thereby bypassing the screens, interviews, and committees, which are made up of depth-first experts who naturally rate based on candidate depth within each interviewer's scope). This selectivity problem (rejection of "Renaissance" women or men) could become increasingly apparent as their products attempt broader and more integrated reach. On the other hand, perhaps management realizes there is an issue, as evidenced by more and more frequently reaching past their defined hiring process to poach pre-selected hires with broader expertise. Maybe this bi-modal hiring is the answer, though their current approach misses out identifying and hiring talented prospects who aren't already valley famous yet could help address the very valid concerns buro9 raises here.

Terretta 13y ago
A later HN story suggests this culture is changing: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5727576 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5727576 > http://blog.idonethis.com/post/50579439215/the-most-innovative-employees-at-google-arent http://blog.idonethis.com/post/50579439215/the-most-innovati... But a comment from someone "familiar with the current engineering hiring practices at Google" argues the opposite, along the lines of my concerns above: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5727620 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5727620

bdowney 13y ago

You're not missing anything. Most if not all of your concerns were voiced during the internal dogfooding phase and, as usual for G+ and Vic Gundotra, duly noted and ignored.

1010011010 13y ago
Hey! It's fake bdowney! Who are you really?

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]