5 ms·

Whining child damages his career prospects with unprofessional rant after just nine months of work.

by SandB0x 13y ago

xtracto 13y ago
And he will come back full circle after he starts his own company and realizes there's a bunch of bullshit and stuff that he needs to swallow. He yarns about how at least in his job at Samsung he had a good income and he understands that everyone, yes absolutely everyone has to start from the bottom and fight their way to the top positions/companies. Crap, with a foot already in Samsung, he could have stay 2 years and then bargain for either: a) a better position, or b) a position in another company. blah.
- hkmurakami 13y ago
  2 years (or even 1.5, or hell, even 1) at Samsung then moving to Apple would have been a pretty natural choice (The fruit company is definitely always hurting for more software talent) Can't really think of other handset makers that he might want to go to, but depending on his skillset, some chipmakers would have been a good fit as well.
- mikecane 13y ago
  I tend to agree with you. Corporations will often test you out in what you consider to be a "crap" job. Why? It's not a test of skill, it's a test of initiative. Without slamming him -- it's his personal choice, after all, and good luck to him -- this is why some people don't advance. They see a position as being "beneath" them when actually they're being watched to see if they can -- on their own -- bring something new to it.
  - xtracto 13y ago
    I used to be like that (no really I did): I started programming when I was about 7 years old (LOGO, then Basic, then C). I finished my degree in Software Engineering with the highest grade of all my peers and with honours. About one year before graduation I started working at a software company (doing some rent-a-car systems and tourism web-dev) but inside me thinking I was so-much-better than what I was doing (programming .NET v1). So I took off and went to the UK to do a Master and a PhD. Fastforward 8 years (4 of Masters/PhD, 4 of a PostDoc), I am 'back' as a 'simple' software engineer in a great company doing what I realized I love: programming software. I have been one year now, learning the company processess and their domain, meeting the people. And after this year, I've got a good career path laid in front of me with the opportunity to sometime become a tech lead.
    - lifeisstillgood 13y ago
      Can I suggest you nip off and read michaelochurch's blog about 1.3-1.5 programmers. If you are not (as a Phd (in CS?)) delivering 5x your value and knowing that you are you are being underused or overpaid.
  - michaelochurch 13y ago
    Corporations will often test you out in what you consider to be a "crap" job. Why? It's not a test of skill, it's a test of initiative. Without slamming him -- it's his personal choice, after all, and good luck to him -- this is why some people don't advance. They see a position as being "beneath" them when actually they're being watched to see if they can -- on their own -- bring something new to it. It's a total waste of time to play that game. Why? Because not everyone starts on a crap job. When you apply for transfer after 1.5-2 years, you will be competing against people had real work, and you won't be able to get out of your second-class citizen status. You might get a slightly better project, but you'll never get an actually good one. Were it not for the job-hopper stigma imposed by Boomersaurs holding the reality of the new economy against us (as if we had something to do with it) the most viable thing would be to roll the dice again after 6 months. The only way to get good projects in a company is to start on one (or have a pre-existing personal relationship with the CEO).
    - mikecane 13y ago
      >>>It's a total waste of time to play that game. I disagree and the experience of many others in prominent positions have experience that runs counter to that. From the outside, it's easy to dismiss it as a "game" (which is a bit odd, given the popularity of games in software...). From the inside, find a better way to separate those who can make an actual contribution to those who just do what they're told and need to be told what they should do? >>>Were it not for the job-hopper stigma In large companies, perhaps, where your entry depends on a corporate checklist. But in a smaller company where the opinion of those doing the hiring counts for more than procedures, it won't matter if you have the skills they need to fill the job. Let's not forget that Apple, Google, Amazon, Microsoft are all behemoths the size of non-digital corporations.
      - michaelochurch 13y ago
        I disagree and the experience of many others in prominent positions have experience that runs counter to that. From the outside, it's easy to dismiss it as a "game" (which is a bit odd, given the popularity of games in software...). I'm using "game" as a synonym for "gamble", not "engaging, interactive experience". When you let your boss assign you crap work to support his career goals while you don't learn anything, you're essentially gambling. The idea is that if you let him use your career in the way that a teenager uses a Kleenex, for about 3 years, his sense of indebtedness will inspire him to start giving you real work and this sudden turn to political favor compensate for your wasted time. What actually happens is that the real work always goes to people with higher-quality work experience than what you got. You're not eligible for the good stuff, because you wasted years of your life on the garbage out of a misguided sense of loyalty (or perhaps financial desperation). From the inside, find a better way to separate those who can make an actual contribution to those who just do what they're told and need to be told what they should do? People who try to work directly for the company by solving important problems they weren't told to solve get fired for breaking the #1 Rule of Corporate Survival: Never Outshine Your Master: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMy8Tf-zCag http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMy8Tf-zCag. (Ok, that's actually one of the 48 "laws of power" and I don't agree with the whole body of work, but that one is 100% true.)
  - SatvikBeri 13y ago
    And this is a great way to lose your best talent. Why work for a place that puts you through bullshit tests when you can work for a company that gives you important work and helps you succeed from day 1? Personally, I did achieve significant success in a highly bureaucratic environment and got rewarded for it...but then I left anyway to work at a place actually encouraged me to work on problems that mattered, instead of constantly getting in the way when I tried to get anything done. Any sane person would do the same thing.
PavlovsCat 13y ago
Whining? Where? Or was that an attempt at irony? Child? I would call it "rather wise for that age". Have you ever worked on a farm, by the way? Unprofessional? Define "professional", then.
- hkmurakami 13y ago
  I suppose that I could argue that complaining about an incompetent former employer does literally no good for one's future career prospects. It can only hurt you, and that lack of foresight may be considered "unprofessional" by not considering your own best interests. (some companies won't care about his rant against Samsung, but some other bigcos will. No company will actually give him bonus points for his public complaints, so overall the blog is purely a net negative for his future career transition prospects)
  - PavlovsCat 13y ago
    He didn't say they're incompetent, to the contrary, just that he didn't like it, and that being directly involved in something that makes more sense to him is more fulfilling to him in the meantime. So yes, he won't be hired by people without reading comprehension who snoop around on blogs, but what makes you think those are particularly productive anyway? And how is this relevant for someone looking to start his own business? And even if that wasn't the case, how are only "bigcos" viable employers, and how can you equate them with "all companies" on top of that?
    - pmelendez 13y ago
      >"He didn't say they're incompetent" I am not sure about that. From the article: "Secondly Samsung as a corporation is a place of absurdity where doing unnecessary things for about 40% of time is a rule" That sounds like incompetence to me :)
      - PavlovsCat 13y ago
        How about actually reading the whole thing? It works so much better that way. I suppose that all companies when exceed some size become something like this - as Paul Graham stated in his essay this is because of effect of scale.
seivan 13y ago
You seriously lack reading comprehension.
maxhowell 13y ago
Whining child damages his Hacker News Karma with unprofessional comment after just 3.5 years of membership.
michaelochurch 13y ago
Sanctimonious douche calls someone a "whining child" because he had the courage to speak honestly about an unpleasant work experience.
fakeer 13y ago
I used to work at Samsung. Left after 2.5 years. From your comments, two things are obvious: 1. You have no idea what you are talking about or what he was talking about. 2. Your comment is top-voted and that's bad. Leave alone whining. This guy has not even touched upon what is like working as a software engineer at Samsung. Over the time you learn to despise yourself for just working there and then leave and if you lazied around till late and didn't leave in time then you are stuck and then you despise yourself more. Two years down the line you look at yourself and then figure you are mechanically doing and following all those work and procedures that you used to hate and then you are scared. You just name any aspect of a work place or work and a (non HQ - though they are now coming out slowly) Samsung engineer can tell you how horrible that is. I had been to Korea HQ(Suwon) 5 times and I realized the HQ engineers are same with the only difference that a Samsung job is worshipped in Korea without parallel. If you talk to HQ(Korean) engineers about Samsung's low quality work and lowest quality work life balance - they make it a matter of prestige and patriotism. Good luck Wiktor, you left in time :-)
- wsieroci 13y ago
  thanks :)
ardit33 13y ago
I don't think it will hinder his future employment prospects. He wouldn't be a fit for any company like Samsung, just as they wouldn't be a good employer for him. It goes both ways. If a person takes a stand like that (basically stating not liking dysopian work environments, bad tools and major bureaucracy), he might make himself not available to such environments, but yet open doors to other ones. The other thing you forget is that this guy is pretty young and still maturing up. Almost no level headed manager will read too much into it few years down the road. As a co-worker, I like this type. They are more likely to reject bureaucracies, and seeking efficiency. These types tend to be more motivated on getting things done, and taking joy in their productive work, and not useless work. Having seen myself how Samsung engineers work (mostly Korean teams), long hours culture, sleeping in their desks (shows you are working hard!), producing buggy code at night, then fixing their own crap in the morning (inefficient tail chasing), I would never work for that company either.
od2m 13y ago
I've worked with Samsung, this guy is spot on.

Whining child damages his career prospects with unprofessional rant after just nine months of work.

by SandB0x 13y ago

Whining child damages his career prospects with unprofessional rant after just nine months of work.

And he will come back full circle after he starts his own company and realizes there's a bunch of bullshit and stuff that he needs to swallow. He yarns about how at least in his job at Samsung he had a good income and he understands that everyone, yes absolutely everyone has to start from the bottom and fight their way to the top positions/companies. Crap, with a foot already in Samsung, he could have stay 2 years and then bargain for either: a) a better position, or b) a position in another company. blah.

hkmurakami 13y ago
2 years (or even 1.5, or hell, even 1) at Samsung then moving to Apple would have been a pretty natural choice (The fruit company is definitely always hurting for more software talent) Can't really think of other handset makers that he might want to go to, but depending on his skillset, some chipmakers would have been a good fit as well.
mikecane 13y ago
I tend to agree with you. Corporations will often test you out in what you consider to be a "crap" job. Why? It's not a test of skill, it's a test of initiative. Without slamming him -- it's his personal choice, after all, and good luck to him -- this is why some people don't advance. They see a position as being "beneath" them when actually they're being watched to see if they can -- on their own -- bring something new to it.
- xtracto 13y ago
  I used to be like that (no really I did): I started programming when I was about 7 years old (LOGO, then Basic, then C). I finished my degree in Software Engineering with the highest grade of all my peers and with honours. About one year before graduation I started working at a software company (doing some rent-a-car systems and tourism web-dev) but inside me thinking I was so-much-better than what I was doing (programming .NET v1). So I took off and went to the UK to do a Master and a PhD. Fastforward 8 years (4 of Masters/PhD, 4 of a PostDoc), I am 'back' as a 'simple' software engineer in a great company doing what I realized I love: programming software. I have been one year now, learning the company processess and their domain, meeting the people. And after this year, I've got a good career path laid in front of me with the opportunity to sometime become a tech lead.
  - lifeisstillgood 13y ago
    Can I suggest you nip off and read michaelochurch's blog about 1.3-1.5 programmers. If you are not (as a Phd (in CS?)) delivering 5x your value and knowing that you are you are being underused or overpaid.
- michaelochurch 13y ago
  Corporations will often test you out in what you consider to be a "crap" job. Why? It's not a test of skill, it's a test of initiative. Without slamming him -- it's his personal choice, after all, and good luck to him -- this is why some people don't advance. They see a position as being "beneath" them when actually they're being watched to see if they can -- on their own -- bring something new to it. It's a total waste of time to play that game. Why? Because not everyone starts on a crap job. When you apply for transfer after 1.5-2 years, you will be competing against people had real work, and you won't be able to get out of your second-class citizen status. You might get a slightly better project, but you'll never get an actually good one. Were it not for the job-hopper stigma imposed by Boomersaurs holding the reality of the new economy against us (as if we had something to do with it) the most viable thing would be to roll the dice again after 6 months. The only way to get good projects in a company is to start on one (or have a pre-existing personal relationship with the CEO).
  - mikecane 13y ago
    >>>It's a total waste of time to play that game. I disagree and the experience of many others in prominent positions have experience that runs counter to that. From the outside, it's easy to dismiss it as a "game" (which is a bit odd, given the popularity of games in software...). From the inside, find a better way to separate those who can make an actual contribution to those who just do what they're told and need to be told what they should do? >>>Were it not for the job-hopper stigma In large companies, perhaps, where your entry depends on a corporate checklist. But in a smaller company where the opinion of those doing the hiring counts for more than procedures, it won't matter if you have the skills they need to fill the job. Let's not forget that Apple, Google, Amazon, Microsoft are all behemoths the size of non-digital corporations.
    - michaelochurch 13y ago
      I disagree and the experience of many others in prominent positions have experience that runs counter to that. From the outside, it's easy to dismiss it as a "game" (which is a bit odd, given the popularity of games in software...). I'm using "game" as a synonym for "gamble", not "engaging, interactive experience". When you let your boss assign you crap work to support his career goals while you don't learn anything, you're essentially gambling. The idea is that if you let him use your career in the way that a teenager uses a Kleenex, for about 3 years, his sense of indebtedness will inspire him to start giving you real work and this sudden turn to political favor compensate for your wasted time. What actually happens is that the real work always goes to people with higher-quality work experience than what you got. You're not eligible for the good stuff, because you wasted years of your life on the garbage out of a misguided sense of loyalty (or perhaps financial desperation). From the inside, find a better way to separate those who can make an actual contribution to those who just do what they're told and need to be told what they should do? People who try to work directly for the company by solving important problems they weren't told to solve get fired for breaking the #1 Rule of Corporate Survival: Never Outshine Your Master: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMy8Tf-zCag http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMy8Tf-zCag. (Ok, that's actually one of the 48 "laws of power" and I don't agree with the whole body of work, but that one is 100% true.)
- SatvikBeri 13y ago
  And this is a great way to lose your best talent. Why work for a place that puts you through bullshit tests when you can work for a company that gives you important work and helps you succeed from day 1? Personally, I did achieve significant success in a highly bureaucratic environment and got rewarded for it...but then I left anyway to work at a place actually encouraged me to work on problems that mattered, instead of constantly getting in the way when I tried to get anything done. Any sane person would do the same thing.

PavlovsCat 13y ago

Whining? Where? Or was that an attempt at irony? Child? I would call it "rather wise for that age". Have you ever worked on a farm, by the way? Unprofessional? Define "professional", then.

hkmurakami 13y ago
I suppose that I could argue that complaining about an incompetent former employer does literally no good for one's future career prospects. It can only hurt you, and that lack of foresight may be considered "unprofessional" by not considering your own best interests. (some companies won't care about his rant against Samsung, but some other bigcos will. No company will actually give him bonus points for his public complaints, so overall the blog is purely a net negative for his future career transition prospects)
- PavlovsCat 13y ago
  He didn't say they're incompetent, to the contrary, just that he didn't like it, and that being directly involved in something that makes more sense to him is more fulfilling to him in the meantime. So yes, he won't be hired by people without reading comprehension who snoop around on blogs, but what makes you think those are particularly productive anyway? And how is this relevant for someone looking to start his own business? And even if that wasn't the case, how are only "bigcos" viable employers, and how can you equate them with "all companies" on top of that?
  - pmelendez 13y ago
    >"He didn't say they're incompetent" I am not sure about that. From the article: "Secondly Samsung as a corporation is a place of absurdity where doing unnecessary things for about 40% of time is a rule" That sounds like incompetence to me :)
    - PavlovsCat 13y ago
      How about actually reading the whole thing? It works so much better that way. I suppose that all companies when exceed some size become something like this - as Paul Graham stated in his essay this is because of effect of scale.

seivan 13y ago

You seriously lack reading comprehension.

maxhowell 13y ago

Whining child damages his Hacker News Karma with unprofessional comment after just 3.5 years of membership.

michaelochurch 13y ago

Sanctimonious douche calls someone a "whining child" because he had the courage to speak honestly about an unpleasant work experience.

fakeer 13y ago

I used to work at Samsung. Left after 2.5 years. From your comments, two things are obvious: 1. You have no idea what you are talking about or what he was talking about. 2. Your comment is top-voted and that's bad. Leave alone whining. This guy has not even touched upon what is like working as a software engineer at Samsung. Over the time you learn to despise yourself for just working there and then leave and if you lazied around till late and didn't leave in time then you are stuck and then you despise yourself more. Two years down the line you look at yourself and then figure you are mechanically doing and following all those work and procedures that you used to hate and then you are scared. You just name any aspect of a work place or work and a (non HQ - though they are now coming out slowly) Samsung engineer can tell you how horrible that is. I had been to Korea HQ(Suwon) 5 times and I realized the HQ engineers are same with the only difference that a Samsung job is worshipped in Korea without parallel. If you talk to HQ(Korean) engineers about Samsung's low quality work and lowest quality work life balance - they make it a matter of prestige and patriotism. Good luck Wiktor, you left in time :-)

wsieroci 13y ago
thanks :)

ardit33 13y ago

I don't think it will hinder his future employment prospects. He wouldn't be a fit for any company like Samsung, just as they wouldn't be a good employer for him. It goes both ways. If a person takes a stand like that (basically stating not liking dysopian work environments, bad tools and major bureaucracy), he might make himself not available to such environments, but yet open doors to other ones. The other thing you forget is that this guy is pretty young and still maturing up. Almost no level headed manager will read too much into it few years down the road. As a co-worker, I like this type. They are more likely to reject bureaucracies, and seeking efficiency. These types tend to be more motivated on getting things done, and taking joy in their productive work, and not useless work. Having seen myself how Samsung engineers work (mostly Korean teams), long hours culture, sleeping in their desks (shows you are working hard!), producing buggy code at night, then fixing their own crap in the morning (inefficient tail chasing), I would never work for that company either.

od2m 13y ago

I've worked with Samsung, this guy is spot on.