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> "There's bad news and there's good news," said Cheng in an interview with Ars. "The good news is, we won this case on every point. The bad news is, we're runn

by buro9 13y ago

> "There's bad news and there's good news," said Cheng in an interview with Ars. "The good news is, we won this case on every point. The bad news is, we're running out of lawsuits. There are fewer trolls for us to fight. I've spent a lot of time over the last seven years figuring out what to do with these guys. There are strategies I think would be really neat and effective that I literally can't execute. I can't make good law because I don't have any appellate cases left. They [the trolls] are dismissing cases against us before any dispositive motions." - Lee Cheng . That's a great quote.

fuzzywalrus 13y ago
All I could think was: "Come at me bro!"
hkmurakami 13y ago
obsoleting oneself - the mark of the hacker ethos? :)
- sliverstorm 13y ago
  No, the "bad news" is not him humble-bragging about obsoleting himself. It's the fact that he doesn't have the opportunity to establish precedents with wins in court because he's out of cases and the trolls won't let it go to court.
  - larrys 13y ago
    "establish precedents with wins in court " That's great for him personally. It won't help newegg sell any more product or make it a better company. If I was a stockholder in that company that wouldn't fly with me. It's similar (but not the same) as an ad agency doing a campaign to win an aware for their personal glory as opposed to what is best for the client. Edit: By "sell any more product" I mean in a meaningful way. Newegg has thousands of customers. The amount that even knows about this and the amount that care isn't significant enough to move the needle. You can always make a case that doing something will increase sales or have a benefit. Would you spend money on advertising in significant dollars without analysis or oversight of the benefits?
    - Avenger42 13y ago
      As Cheng points out, by fighting these trolls, they make themselves a more frightening target for future infringement lawsuits, so to some extent you have to find a way to take that into account. You're spending more now, but you'll save in the long run.
    - unreal37 13y ago
      This logic doesn't make sense. If a kid is bullied in school, is it "more efficient" for him to give in to the bullies and just hand over his lunch money every day? Or should he take a stand over days and weeks, and then never be bothered by bullies again? Which kid grows up to be "better" at life? I think what Newegg is doing WILL lead to bigger long-term profits in reduced license fees, reduced legal fees when the bullies stop suing them, and increased ability to compete while their competitors are restrained by restrictive licenses and license fees.
      - larrys 13y ago
        "If a kid is bullied in school, is it "more efficient" for him to give in to the bullies and just hand over his lunch money every day? Or should he take a stand over days and weeks, and then never be bothered by bullies again?" I think that depends on the circumstances. In some cases it might be more efficient to not get the shit beat out of you (that is if there aren't other ways to deal with it at the institutional level). By take a stand you are assuming that the person being bullied can actually stand up to the bully and make him go away.
        tlear 13y ago
        Fighting back often all it takes, making bully pay that is.. you do not need to win every fight you just need to make people think twice about messing with you, there are always easier victims to play with.
        jessaustin 13y ago
        Clearly Cheng and Newegg can pass that test.
ak217 13y ago
He should really open a consultancy/firm to specialize in this.
- bjhoops1 13y ago
  That's what I was thinking. Or some sort of non-profit that individuals and tech companies could support with donations. That would be sweet.
- James_Duval 13y ago
  This comment concerns me, as I would get a real "He Who Fights Monsters..." vibe off anyone who created a single-purpose legal for-profit consultancy purely to combat single-purpose legal for-profit consultancies who happen to be doing horrible things at the moment. I really couldn't see it ending well.
larrys 13y ago
It's a great quote but there's a problem. Your legal officer, your attorney or anyone at your company should realize that this isn't about them nor is it about (business wise at least) protecting anyone else but the interests of your company. His quote smacks of a challenge that he liked and as such you also have to at least question whether he operated at arms length from the problem at hand. Newegg's business isn't fighting lawsuits.
- qq66 13y ago
  Newegg is a private company, so its business is whatever its owners want it to be. I don't think this guy has gone rogue, I'm sure he has the full support of Newegg leadership.
- mey 13y ago
  It could be part of their portfolio. They are obviously willing to fight deeply on issues, nothing preventing someone like Amazon from hiring them for consultancy services.
- mullingitover 13y ago
  You have to admit, this is fantastic press that gives them incredible amounts of customer goodwill. See also: comment threads all over the internet with people swearing to spend money on NewEgg purchases because of their actions here. Also, this is good long-term planning that is preventing them from being seen as easy targets by patent trolls. It could end up saving them millions.
  - larrys 13y ago
    "incredible amounts of customer goodwill" It gives them goodwill the question is how much and what is the amount of sales increase? Hackers tend to overestimate the importance of things like this and not take into account those in flyover country or people who aren't aware of things like this. Besides publicity gain isn't a reason to pursue a strategy like this. That's not a gamble that makes sense. "easy targets by patent trolls. It could end up saving them millions." Companies have used similar strategies against legal predators for the longest time. Nothing new about doing that. Yet many companies led by responsible legal teams and management also settle and move on. This is not clear cut by any means.
lifeguard 13y ago
My fav, ""Shareholders of public companies that engage in patent trolling should ask themselves if they're really well-served by their management teams," Cheng added. "Are they properly monetizing their R&D? Surely there are better ways to make money than to just rely on litigating patents. If I was a shareholder, I would take a hard look as to whether their management was competent."
- mark-r 13y ago
  "Surely there are better ways to make money than to just rely on litigating patents." All evidence thus far points to the opposite, except for small exceptions such as suing NewEgg. That's why patent trolls are becoming such a huge problem - the process is so absurdly profitable that companies are formed simply to take advantage of it. There's no way their management are going to change their minds.
  - lifeguard 13y ago
    Huh? "All evidence"? You are blathering.
crag 13y ago
Major points for Cheng. But, look, most trolls don't want to fight it out. They want you to settle. Once word gets out that you will fight to the death, the trolls move on to the next easier target.
BrandonM 13y ago
What if NewEgg offered a membership for small tech businesses? The businesses would pay $x for year, and would get either a nominal discount on orders, or cheaper shipping, or faster shipping, or a super-special support contact, or whatever. But the kicker would be that it would include patent defense insurance. Then, anytime one of those small companies would get patent trolled, NewEgg and Cheng could go to bat for them. I'm not suggesting this should be cheap. Adjust the value of x until the scheme is appropriately profitable for NewEgg, and Cheng can keep fighting the good fight.
- warmwaffles 13y ago
  Until they get stuck with defending someone who is bad PR for newegg.

by buro9 13y ago

fuzzywalrus 13y ago

All I could think was: "Come at me bro!"

hkmurakami 13y ago

obsoleting oneself - the mark of the hacker ethos? :)

sliverstorm 13y ago
No, the "bad news" is not him humble-bragging about obsoleting himself. It's the fact that he doesn't have the opportunity to establish precedents with wins in court because he's out of cases and the trolls won't let it go to court.
- larrys 13y ago
  "establish precedents with wins in court " That's great for him personally. It won't help newegg sell any more product or make it a better company. If I was a stockholder in that company that wouldn't fly with me. It's similar (but not the same) as an ad agency doing a campaign to win an aware for their personal glory as opposed to what is best for the client. Edit: By "sell any more product" I mean in a meaningful way. Newegg has thousands of customers. The amount that even knows about this and the amount that care isn't significant enough to move the needle. You can always make a case that doing something will increase sales or have a benefit. Would you spend money on advertising in significant dollars without analysis or oversight of the benefits?
  - Avenger42 13y ago
    As Cheng points out, by fighting these trolls, they make themselves a more frightening target for future infringement lawsuits, so to some extent you have to find a way to take that into account. You're spending more now, but you'll save in the long run.
  - unreal37 13y ago
    This logic doesn't make sense. If a kid is bullied in school, is it "more efficient" for him to give in to the bullies and just hand over his lunch money every day? Or should he take a stand over days and weeks, and then never be bothered by bullies again? Which kid grows up to be "better" at life? I think what Newegg is doing WILL lead to bigger long-term profits in reduced license fees, reduced legal fees when the bullies stop suing them, and increased ability to compete while their competitors are restrained by restrictive licenses and license fees.
    - larrys 13y ago
      "If a kid is bullied in school, is it "more efficient" for him to give in to the bullies and just hand over his lunch money every day? Or should he take a stand over days and weeks, and then never be bothered by bullies again?" I think that depends on the circumstances. In some cases it might be more efficient to not get the shit beat out of you (that is if there aren't other ways to deal with it at the institutional level). By take a stand you are assuming that the person being bullied can actually stand up to the bully and make him go away.
      - tlear 13y ago
        Fighting back often all it takes, making bully pay that is.. you do not need to win every fight you just need to make people think twice about messing with you, there are always easier victims to play with.
      - jessaustin 13y ago
        Clearly Cheng and Newegg can pass that test.

ak217 13y ago

He should really open a consultancy/firm to specialize in this.

bjhoops1 13y ago
That's what I was thinking. Or some sort of non-profit that individuals and tech companies could support with donations. That would be sweet.
James_Duval 13y ago
This comment concerns me, as I would get a real "He Who Fights Monsters..." vibe off anyone who created a single-purpose legal for-profit consultancy purely to combat single-purpose legal for-profit consultancies who happen to be doing horrible things at the moment. I really couldn't see it ending well.

larrys 13y ago

It's a great quote but there's a problem. Your legal officer, your attorney or anyone at your company should realize that this isn't about them nor is it about (business wise at least) protecting anyone else but the interests of your company. His quote smacks of a challenge that he liked and as such you also have to at least question whether he operated at arms length from the problem at hand. Newegg's business isn't fighting lawsuits.

qq66 13y ago
Newegg is a private company, so its business is whatever its owners want it to be. I don't think this guy has gone rogue, I'm sure he has the full support of Newegg leadership.
mey 13y ago
It could be part of their portfolio. They are obviously willing to fight deeply on issues, nothing preventing someone like Amazon from hiring them for consultancy services.
mullingitover 13y ago
You have to admit, this is fantastic press that gives them incredible amounts of customer goodwill. See also: comment threads all over the internet with people swearing to spend money on NewEgg purchases because of their actions here. Also, this is good long-term planning that is preventing them from being seen as easy targets by patent trolls. It could end up saving them millions.
- larrys 13y ago
  "incredible amounts of customer goodwill" It gives them goodwill the question is how much and what is the amount of sales increase? Hackers tend to overestimate the importance of things like this and not take into account those in flyover country or people who aren't aware of things like this. Besides publicity gain isn't a reason to pursue a strategy like this. That's not a gamble that makes sense. "easy targets by patent trolls. It could end up saving them millions." Companies have used similar strategies against legal predators for the longest time. Nothing new about doing that. Yet many companies led by responsible legal teams and management also settle and move on. This is not clear cut by any means.

lifeguard 13y ago

My fav, ""Shareholders of public companies that engage in patent trolling should ask themselves if they're really well-served by their management teams," Cheng added. "Are they properly monetizing their R&D? Surely there are better ways to make money than to just rely on litigating patents. If I was a shareholder, I would take a hard look as to whether their management was competent."

mark-r 13y ago
"Surely there are better ways to make money than to just rely on litigating patents." All evidence thus far points to the opposite, except for small exceptions such as suing NewEgg. That's why patent trolls are becoming such a huge problem - the process is so absurdly profitable that companies are formed simply to take advantage of it. There's no way their management are going to change their minds.
- lifeguard 13y ago
  Huh? "All evidence"? You are blathering.

crag 13y ago

Major points for Cheng. But, look, most trolls don't want to fight it out. They want you to settle. Once word gets out that you will fight to the death, the trolls move on to the next easier target.

BrandonM 13y ago

What if NewEgg offered a membership for small tech businesses? The businesses would pay $x for year, and would get either a nominal discount on orders, or cheaper shipping, or faster shipping, or a super-special support contact, or whatever. But the kicker would be that it would include patent defense insurance. Then, anytime one of those small companies would get patent trolled, NewEgg and Cheng could go to bat for them. I'm not suggesting this should be cheap. Adjust the value of x until the scheme is appropriately profitable for NewEgg, and Cheng can keep fighting the good fight.

warmwaffles 13y ago
Until they get stuck with defending someone who is bad PR for newegg.