6 ms·

As someone who has been prosecuted for a crime in Florida (it was semi-serious) and has had a few friends enter the pre-trial diversion program there I would li

As someone who has been prosecuted for a crime in Florida (it was semi-serious) and has had a few friends enter the pre-trial diversion program there I would like to point a few things out. Pre-trial diversion isn't cheap if you are of limited means. You have monthly fees you have to pay and you likely have fines and penalties to pay too. A lapse in any of those payments can result in what is called a "writ" being issued. It is essentially a bench warrant for your arrest. I have had this happen to me. It sucks. Kiera is 14 and so I'm going to give her the benefit of the doubt that she is not a drug user. However, if she is she better get clean soon. Florida loves to drug test people in an attempt to violate them on their probation. A failed drug test will have you removed from the diversion program and you will face the original charges in court. Finally, if the diversion program is completed without incident there are some lasting effects. Even though the charges will ultimately go away there are some things that wont. For instance, a friend of mine recently applied for a job that did not simply ask if he had been convicted of a felony. It asked specifically if he had ever pleaded guilty, nolo contendere, or entered a pre-trial diversion program. Completing the program smoothly does not necessarily mean that this incident will be completely over for her. Shame on the DA in this county for moving forward in this way. The police were stupid to arrest her in the first place but hey, that's what they do. Proceeding with criminal charges, particularly in a case where no one was hurt and no property was damaged, is completely at the discretion of the DA. This is bullshit and no one should be pleased with this outcome.

u2328 13y ago
This is disgusting. Is this really how Florida treats its own? I grew up in Southern California and I blew out the circuits on my junior high's science building once. I got a firm talking to, a two-day suspension, and a uncool nickname out of it, but that was it.
- will_brown 13y ago
  It is worse than you think, here is a small excerpt about Florida students: In Florida, students have been arrested for bringing a plastic butter knife to school, throwing an eraser, and drawing a picture of a gun. The eleven-year-old who allegedly brought a plastic butter knife to school was handcuffed, taken to jail, and charged with a third-degree felony. Legislation recently passed unanimously by the Florida Senate could change all that by prohibiting schools from calling the police for nonviolent misdemeanors. "Throw an eraser and they want to call it throwing a deadly missile, which is a felony," said state Sen. Stephen Wise (R-Jacksonville), the senate sponsor of the legislation, which has yet to clear the state house. "When you get into the juvenile justice system everybody thinks your sins are forgiven when you turn 18, and I will assure you that doesn't happen. It's a blemish on your record." http://www.eagleforum.org/educate/2009/june09/zero-tolerance-states.html http://www.eagleforum.org/educate/2009/june09/zero-tolerance... I am personally aware of two FL elementary cases one where a student was charged for throwing a deadly missle, which was a paper ball, and the other a boy kissed a girl on the school playground and was charged with sexual harassment. I wish I could say I am joking...
  - btbuildem 13y ago
    Good thing the sea levels are rising..
- csense 13y ago
  > I got a firm talking to, a two-day suspension, and a uncool nickname out of it, but that was it. Was this before, or after, the Columbine school shootings in 1999 and the terrorist attacks of Sep. 11, 2001?
  - nitrogen 13y ago
    Columbine wasn't the first school shooting[0], and 9/11 wasn't the first terrorist attack. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_attacks_related_to_secondary_schools https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_attacks_related_to_sec... (The list begins with an incident in 1853)
    - angersock 13y ago
      it changed everything dont you see (why do you hate america)
    - aplusbi 13y ago
      Columbine had a major effect on the way US schools deal with violence, threats or even just weird kids. 9/11 had a profound effect on how the US deals with terrorism, threats of terrorism or even just brown people. Certainly not the first, but probably the events with the most lasting effects.
  - shocks 13y ago
    I realise you haven't directly stated that you support these actions, I would like to make the following comment since it seams to me that you think school shootings and terrorist attacks are valid reasons for this behaviour. I believe while you are under the impression your government and law enforcement agencies are just doing more to protect you, you are actually relinquishing your freedom in exchange for false hope and allowing your government to nerf the world, and allowing the terrorists to win. Arresting 11 year olds for bringing a plastic knife to school is ridiculous behaviour and should not be allowed (or encounraged) under the guise of "protecting us from school attacks and terrorists". (I say 'your' because I am actually a UK citizen. While the ridiculous behaviour of the Americans is not really a concern of mine, I worry that other countries and governments will follow suit. That said, we're not dumb enough to allow rampant legal gun ownership. Sorry.)
rdtsc 13y ago
> It asked specifically if he had ever pleaded guilty, nolo contendere, or entered a pre-trial diversion program. Completing the program smoothly does not necessarily mean that this incident will be completely over for her. That is shady. It seems like there should be a law preventing them from asking that. The whole point is so the record goes away if it doesn't, might as well fight it in court. I have seen these questions on forms. Usually phrased as "have you ever been arrested?". Interesting. Even speed tickets have an entry as "date of arrest" even though there is not physical arrest going on. Does that qualify? Can someone not be arrested but charged with a crime, tried and serve jail time? I don't know of all the technicalities. Also think about this, how do these "background check" companies find out about this supposedly sealed and then expunged record?
- dopamean 13y ago
  It is a little shady. The job application on which my friend encountered that question was actually for a public sector job with the state. I have been asked the same thing for a private sector job. My girlfriend has also been asked the same thing to work for a pre-school. All in Florida. Edit: I'd like to add that I have moved back to New York (where I am from). My girlfriend is moving in January. Fuck Florida.
- Natsu 13y ago
  > Also think about this, how do these "background check" companies find out about this supposedly sealed and then expunged record? In a case like this, they would have a whole bunch of news articles to go on. It is likely to show up on Google for quite some time.
  - precisioncoder 13y ago
    In this case it may be a good thing. Anyone who reads this account (anyone reasonable at least) will think. "Bright student with an interest in science trying a fun science experiment." Then they'll hire her, or not, based on her qualifications. At least in a perfect world...
    - 13y ago
dweinus 13y ago
I would just like to say, as someone who has gone through a similar probation program, that dopamean is absolutely correct. This may be better than a conviction, but Kiera is not out of the woods and this moment of hijinks at age 14 may follow her for life. At least she has popular support and the attention of the media, many young Americans face these laws without that benefit and it is a scary road to walk.
- feduphacker 13y ago
  It's already fucked her life. This fiasco is going to be the top result of any future searches potential employers will see. This is just a pure god damn disgrace to humanity and the DA, the cops, fucking EVERYONE involved should be prosecuted for the bullshit they're putting this poor student through. This is not right.
  - Bootvis 13y ago
    I hope not, I hope that anyone that googles her is as outraged as we are and won't hold it against her. If she is interviewed by right minded people it might even be a nice thing to talk about.
    - feduphacker 13y ago
      This would have never reached the extent it did if most people were right minded. We are not the norm in America.
      - ptaipale 13y ago
        But, to find a job you don't need to please most people. You need to find just one "right-minded" employer. Whatever that means.
      - chc 13y ago
        That statement makes no sense. Most people were not involved in Kiera's case at all, so it cannot possibly reflect on "most people."

u2328 13y ago

This is disgusting. Is this really how Florida treats its own? I grew up in Southern California and I blew out the circuits on my junior high's science building once. I got a firm talking to, a two-day suspension, and a uncool nickname out of it, but that was it.

will_brown 13y ago
It is worse than you think, here is a small excerpt about Florida students: In Florida, students have been arrested for bringing a plastic butter knife to school, throwing an eraser, and drawing a picture of a gun. The eleven-year-old who allegedly brought a plastic butter knife to school was handcuffed, taken to jail, and charged with a third-degree felony. Legislation recently passed unanimously by the Florida Senate could change all that by prohibiting schools from calling the police for nonviolent misdemeanors. "Throw an eraser and they want to call it throwing a deadly missile, which is a felony," said state Sen. Stephen Wise (R-Jacksonville), the senate sponsor of the legislation, which has yet to clear the state house. "When you get into the juvenile justice system everybody thinks your sins are forgiven when you turn 18, and I will assure you that doesn't happen. It's a blemish on your record." http://www.eagleforum.org/educate/2009/june09/zero-tolerance-states.html http://www.eagleforum.org/educate/2009/june09/zero-tolerance... I am personally aware of two FL elementary cases one where a student was charged for throwing a deadly missle, which was a paper ball, and the other a boy kissed a girl on the school playground and was charged with sexual harassment. I wish I could say I am joking...
- btbuildem 13y ago
  Good thing the sea levels are rising..
csense 13y ago
> I got a firm talking to, a two-day suspension, and a uncool nickname out of it, but that was it. Was this before, or after, the Columbine school shootings in 1999 and the terrorist attacks of Sep. 11, 2001?
- nitrogen 13y ago
  Columbine wasn't the first school shooting[0], and 9/11 wasn't the first terrorist attack. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_attacks_related_to_secondary_schools https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_attacks_related_to_sec... (The list begins with an incident in 1853)
  - angersock 13y ago
    it changed everything dont you see (why do you hate america)
  - aplusbi 13y ago
    Columbine had a major effect on the way US schools deal with violence, threats or even just weird kids. 9/11 had a profound effect on how the US deals with terrorism, threats of terrorism or even just brown people. Certainly not the first, but probably the events with the most lasting effects.
- shocks 13y ago
  I realise you haven't directly stated that you support these actions, I would like to make the following comment since it seams to me that you think school shootings and terrorist attacks are valid reasons for this behaviour. I believe while you are under the impression your government and law enforcement agencies are just doing more to protect you, you are actually relinquishing your freedom in exchange for false hope and allowing your government to nerf the world, and allowing the terrorists to win. Arresting 11 year olds for bringing a plastic knife to school is ridiculous behaviour and should not be allowed (or encounraged) under the guise of "protecting us from school attacks and terrorists". (I say 'your' because I am actually a UK citizen. While the ridiculous behaviour of the Americans is not really a concern of mine, I worry that other countries and governments will follow suit. That said, we're not dumb enough to allow rampant legal gun ownership. Sorry.)

rdtsc 13y ago

> It asked specifically if he had ever pleaded guilty, nolo contendere, or entered a pre-trial diversion program. Completing the program smoothly does not necessarily mean that this incident will be completely over for her. That is shady. It seems like there should be a law preventing them from asking that. The whole point is so the record goes away if it doesn't, might as well fight it in court. I have seen these questions on forms. Usually phrased as "have you ever been arrested?". Interesting. Even speed tickets have an entry as "date of arrest" even though there is not physical arrest going on. Does that qualify? Can someone not be arrested but charged with a crime, tried and serve jail time? I don't know of all the technicalities. Also think about this, how do these "background check" companies find out about this supposedly sealed and then expunged record?

dopamean 13y ago
It is a little shady. The job application on which my friend encountered that question was actually for a public sector job with the state. I have been asked the same thing for a private sector job. My girlfriend has also been asked the same thing to work for a pre-school. All in Florida. Edit: I'd like to add that I have moved back to New York (where I am from). My girlfriend is moving in January. Fuck Florida.
Natsu 13y ago
> Also think about this, how do these "background check" companies find out about this supposedly sealed and then expunged record? In a case like this, they would have a whole bunch of news articles to go on. It is likely to show up on Google for quite some time.
- precisioncoder 13y ago
  In this case it may be a good thing. Anyone who reads this account (anyone reasonable at least) will think. "Bright student with an interest in science trying a fun science experiment." Then they'll hire her, or not, based on her qualifications. At least in a perfect world...
  - 13y ago

dweinus 13y ago

I would just like to say, as someone who has gone through a similar probation program, that dopamean is absolutely correct. This may be better than a conviction, but Kiera is not out of the woods and this moment of hijinks at age 14 may follow her for life. At least she has popular support and the attention of the media, many young Americans face these laws without that benefit and it is a scary road to walk.

feduphacker 13y ago
It's already fucked her life. This fiasco is going to be the top result of any future searches potential employers will see. This is just a pure god damn disgrace to humanity and the DA, the cops, fucking EVERYONE involved should be prosecuted for the bullshit they're putting this poor student through. This is not right.
- Bootvis 13y ago
  I hope not, I hope that anyone that googles her is as outraged as we are and won't hold it against her. If she is interviewed by right minded people it might even be a nice thing to talk about.
  - feduphacker 13y ago
    This would have never reached the extent it did if most people were right minded. We are not the norm in America.
    - ptaipale 13y ago
      But, to find a job you don't need to please most people. You need to find just one "right-minded" employer. Whatever that means.
    - chc 13y ago
      That statement makes no sense. Most people were not involved in Kiera's case at all, so it cannot possibly reflect on "most people."