7 ms·

The title of the article is incorrect, charges are not being dropped. Diversion is a plea bargain in which you plead guilty to the charges and receive probatio

The title of the article is incorrect, charges are not being dropped. Diversion is a plea bargain in which you plead guilty to the charges and receive probation. If you meet probation terms such as random drug testing and so forth, then your conviction record is "erased". Sometimes how this is handled procedurally is the signed guilty plea is held in a separate file and not entered into the main system, and at the end of diversion the file stays in the separate file if you have complied with all terms, or is entered into the main system if you haven't complied with all terms. Calling this "dropping charges" couldn't be further from the truth - this is a forced guilty plea. Since she "signed the agreement", the matter is over - she has admitted to charges and is legally guilty and has received probation, and that's the end of it.

jellicle 13y ago
Yep. So, she has pled guilty, been placed on probation, will have to comply with the probation terms, been kicked out of her high school and sent to another school for child-criminals where I'm sure the education will be absolutely stellar, and there's probably about a 50% chance that this criminal record will follow her around for the rest of her life (somehow, it seems that a lot of these supposedly-sealed convictions end up on adult criminal background checks). Job well done. One scientist eliminated from useful society.
- tiredofcareer 13y ago
  Her first statement while being interviewed was that she was performing a science experiment. That story changed under interview, and she later admitted someone told her how and encouraged her to do it. The outpouring of support from renowned scientists and legal funds happily ignored that point, and stuck with the "science experiment" angle. So, no, this is not an anti-science campaign by the government, regardless of how really hard we want to believe that she's aspiring to science. These things will blind you and take limbs off if you mishandle them. They have blown up on police officers after being left in an alley because they didn't detonate when kids make them. Then they just leave them for other people to clean up. Even if you buy the science experiment angle, which she herself went back on, this is a safety issue from the completely reckless way in which she performed a "science experiment", similar to detonating a pipe bomb on school property just to see what happens. Oh, how the narrative would be different if she had built a pipe bomb instead. Honestly, guys, we have this one wrong. Here's several other cases for your consideration, showing how big this problem is (the reason arrests are picking up is because LEOs are communicating about this, now that kids are starting to do it more): http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2013/04/grosse_pointe_woods_police_war.html http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2013/04/grosse_p... http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=news/local&id=9104036 http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=news/local&id=... (from TODAY) http://www.ktvb.com/news/crime/Five-more-plastic-bottle-explosives-found-in-Sun-Valley-205869081.html http://www.ktvb.com/news/crime/Five-more-plastic-bottle-expl... http://www.kboi2.com/news/local/Police-warn-about-plastic-bottle-bombs-205342311.html http://www.kboi2.com/news/local/Police-warn-about-plastic-bo... http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/bottle-bomb-warning-goes-out-to-schools-in-novato/nD7xh/ http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/bottle-bomb-warning-goes-out-t... This is a serious problem, not an opportunity to "win another scientist," and the narrative around this case has been disgusting. Reckless behavior and endangering yourself and others intentionally is not the hallmark of a scientist, no matter how much you want the science angle to be true.
  - u2328 13y ago
    No, we have it right. People like you need to stop convicting everybody in our society for momentary instances of foolish behavior. Who cares if it was a ad-hoc experiment or something she saw on YouTube that her friends were trying to get her do? It's still science, and performing it without all the permissions and safety precautions doesn't change that. Even if it just a bunch of kids who just wanted to see something blow up. It's cause and effect. Learning and growing. Yeah, it was stupid, but you learn from stupid things. Regardless of all that, the charges are completely over the top. Community service, detention, suspension, sure. But the county was trying to charge her with a felony! I did stuff like that in junior high too, because I wanted to see the reaction. I learned from it though, and grew, because I didn't become an instant criminal and have my entire life ruined. Congratulations, now we just put another young person into the system that strips away the chance to succeed and condemns her, for life, to one childhood mistake.
  - maxerickson 13y ago
    Starting to do it more? 15 years ago, the grocery stores in my home town wouldn't sell The Works to teenagers.
    - leetrout 13y ago
      About the same time the store workers in my town would call the police / fire department when we bought aqua net and/or starter fluid. (I guess 5 teenage dudes buying multiple cans of hairspray was a bit obvious.) Never did get in trouble with our potato guns. I'm sure I'd already be in jail if it were this day.
  - Anechoic 13y ago
    now that kids are starting to do it more Do you have citations to show that this was a bigger problem now then it was 10/20/30/40 years ago? Plenty of folks blew shit up during my day. she later admitted someone told her how and encouraged her to do it Link? I hadn't head this and 5 minutes of Googling hasn't turned anything up.
  - iguana 13y ago
    Oh please, I've blown up so much stuff when I was younger, and it was instrumental in encouraging me to learn about science. Did people get hurt? No. Was she doing it to hurt people? No. Was she doing it for attention? No. She was doing it out of curiosity. She doesn't deserve to be treated like a criminal. We must look at this in terms of mens rea. She needs a stern talking to, and probably at least a suspension from school. If they really want to escalate this to an expulsion, fine, but criminal consequences? Probation? Jail? Completely ridiculous. Like there aren't enough actual criminals to prosecute.
ignostic 13y ago
True, charges were not dropped. I'm mad that she had to sign a guilty plea. Even if the terms are light, as I'd expect and as they should be, she shouldn't have to plead guilty to anything. These "zero tolerance" policies turn into decisions with zero judgement and sense. Indeed, they're intended to remove human judgement from the equation.
gfosco 13y ago
I think you're incorrect about this, and would appreciate a source. From my understanding of pre-trial diversion, it does not involve any admission of guilt... If the defendant does not complete the probation period successfully, the charges are reinstated and dealt with in court. Guilt is not pre-determined.
- will_brown 13y ago
  You are correct there is no admission or guilty plea involved.
dopamean 13y ago
As someone who has been prosecuted for a crime in Florida (it was semi-serious) and has had a few friends enter the pre-trial diversion program there I would like to point a few things out. Pre-trial diversion isn't cheap if you are of limited means. You have monthly fees you have to pay and you likely have fines and penalties to pay too. A lapse in any of those payments can result in what is called a "writ" being issued. It is essentially a bench warrant for your arrest. I have had this happen to me. It sucks. Kiera is 14 and so I'm going to give her the benefit of the doubt that she is not a drug user. However, if she is she better get clean soon. Florida loves to drug test people in an attempt to violate them on their probation. A failed drug test will have you removed from the diversion program and you will face the original charges in court. Finally, if the diversion program is completed without incident there are some lasting effects. Even though the charges will ultimately go away there are some things that wont. For instance, a friend of mine recently applied for a job that did not simply ask if he had been convicted of a felony. It asked specifically if he had ever pleaded guilty, nolo contendere, or entered a pre-trial diversion program. Completing the program smoothly does not necessarily mean that this incident will be completely over for her. Shame on the DA in this county for moving forward in this way. The police were stupid to arrest her in the first place but hey, that's what they do. Proceeding with criminal charges, particularly in a case where no one was hurt and no property was damaged, is completely at the discretion of the DA. This is bullshit and no one should be pleased with this outcome.
- u2328 13y ago
  This is disgusting. Is this really how Florida treats its own? I grew up in Southern California and I blew out the circuits on my junior high's science building once. I got a firm talking to, a two-day suspension, and a uncool nickname out of it, but that was it.
  - will_brown 13y ago
    It is worse than you think, here is a small excerpt about Florida students: In Florida, students have been arrested for bringing a plastic butter knife to school, throwing an eraser, and drawing a picture of a gun. The eleven-year-old who allegedly brought a plastic butter knife to school was handcuffed, taken to jail, and charged with a third-degree felony. Legislation recently passed unanimously by the Florida Senate could change all that by prohibiting schools from calling the police for nonviolent misdemeanors. "Throw an eraser and they want to call it throwing a deadly missile, which is a felony," said state Sen. Stephen Wise (R-Jacksonville), the senate sponsor of the legislation, which has yet to clear the state house. "When you get into the juvenile justice system everybody thinks your sins are forgiven when you turn 18, and I will assure you that doesn't happen. It's a blemish on your record." http://www.eagleforum.org/educate/2009/june09/zero-tolerance-states.html http://www.eagleforum.org/educate/2009/june09/zero-tolerance... I am personally aware of two FL elementary cases one where a student was charged for throwing a deadly missle, which was a paper ball, and the other a boy kissed a girl on the school playground and was charged with sexual harassment. I wish I could say I am joking...
will_brown 13y ago
You are correct about the probation portion, but she did not plead guilty to enter diversion, it is typically no contest to the charges until she completes the diversion program (probation) then the no contest is converted to either a "nolle prosecution" or "withhold of adjudication". Otherwise I agree with you this is not the same as the State dropping the charges, but this is not the same as a guilty plea or conviction. Additionally, the record is not erased, but she would have the option to seal or expunge her record after a period of time governed by Florida Statute. Of course both military and Feds can always see sealed/expunged records (not that the public will not generally remember this name for some time to come) and if she ever wanted to join a bar (despite being interested in science now, this experience may encourage her to become an attorney fight this kind of injustice on a daily basis), they generally make you unseal your record.
criley 13y ago
Dude, did you read the article: >"The pending case has been dismissed. No formal charges will be filed," read the office's statement.

jellicle 13y ago

Yep. So, she has pled guilty, been placed on probation, will have to comply with the probation terms, been kicked out of her high school and sent to another school for child-criminals where I'm sure the education will be absolutely stellar, and there's probably about a 50% chance that this criminal record will follow her around for the rest of her life (somehow, it seems that a lot of these supposedly-sealed convictions end up on adult criminal background checks). Job well done. One scientist eliminated from useful society.

tiredofcareer 13y ago
Her first statement while being interviewed was that she was performing a science experiment. That story changed under interview, and she later admitted someone told her how and encouraged her to do it. The outpouring of support from renowned scientists and legal funds happily ignored that point, and stuck with the "science experiment" angle. So, no, this is not an anti-science campaign by the government, regardless of how really hard we want to believe that she's aspiring to science. These things will blind you and take limbs off if you mishandle them. They have blown up on police officers after being left in an alley because they didn't detonate when kids make them. Then they just leave them for other people to clean up. Even if you buy the science experiment angle, which she herself went back on, this is a safety issue from the completely reckless way in which she performed a "science experiment", similar to detonating a pipe bomb on school property just to see what happens. Oh, how the narrative would be different if she had built a pipe bomb instead. Honestly, guys, we have this one wrong. Here's several other cases for your consideration, showing how big this problem is (the reason arrests are picking up is because LEOs are communicating about this, now that kids are starting to do it more): http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2013/04/grosse_pointe_woods_police_war.html http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2013/04/grosse_p... http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=news/local&id=9104036 http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=news/local&id=... (from TODAY) http://www.ktvb.com/news/crime/Five-more-plastic-bottle-explosives-found-in-Sun-Valley-205869081.html http://www.ktvb.com/news/crime/Five-more-plastic-bottle-expl... http://www.kboi2.com/news/local/Police-warn-about-plastic-bottle-bombs-205342311.html http://www.kboi2.com/news/local/Police-warn-about-plastic-bo... http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/bottle-bomb-warning-goes-out-to-schools-in-novato/nD7xh/ http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/bottle-bomb-warning-goes-out-t... This is a serious problem, not an opportunity to "win another scientist," and the narrative around this case has been disgusting. Reckless behavior and endangering yourself and others intentionally is not the hallmark of a scientist, no matter how much you want the science angle to be true.
- u2328 13y ago
  No, we have it right. People like you need to stop convicting everybody in our society for momentary instances of foolish behavior. Who cares if it was a ad-hoc experiment or something she saw on YouTube that her friends were trying to get her do? It's still science, and performing it without all the permissions and safety precautions doesn't change that. Even if it just a bunch of kids who just wanted to see something blow up. It's cause and effect. Learning and growing. Yeah, it was stupid, but you learn from stupid things. Regardless of all that, the charges are completely over the top. Community service, detention, suspension, sure. But the county was trying to charge her with a felony! I did stuff like that in junior high too, because I wanted to see the reaction. I learned from it though, and grew, because I didn't become an instant criminal and have my entire life ruined. Congratulations, now we just put another young person into the system that strips away the chance to succeed and condemns her, for life, to one childhood mistake.
- maxerickson 13y ago
  Starting to do it more? 15 years ago, the grocery stores in my home town wouldn't sell The Works to teenagers.
  - leetrout 13y ago
    About the same time the store workers in my town would call the police / fire department when we bought aqua net and/or starter fluid. (I guess 5 teenage dudes buying multiple cans of hairspray was a bit obvious.) Never did get in trouble with our potato guns. I'm sure I'd already be in jail if it were this day.
- Anechoic 13y ago
  now that kids are starting to do it more Do you have citations to show that this was a bigger problem now then it was 10/20/30/40 years ago? Plenty of folks blew shit up during my day. she later admitted someone told her how and encouraged her to do it Link? I hadn't head this and 5 minutes of Googling hasn't turned anything up.
- iguana 13y ago
  Oh please, I've blown up so much stuff when I was younger, and it was instrumental in encouraging me to learn about science. Did people get hurt? No. Was she doing it to hurt people? No. Was she doing it for attention? No. She was doing it out of curiosity. She doesn't deserve to be treated like a criminal. We must look at this in terms of mens rea. She needs a stern talking to, and probably at least a suspension from school. If they really want to escalate this to an expulsion, fine, but criminal consequences? Probation? Jail? Completely ridiculous. Like there aren't enough actual criminals to prosecute.

ignostic 13y ago

True, charges were not dropped. I'm mad that she had to sign a guilty plea. Even if the terms are light, as I'd expect and as they should be, she shouldn't have to plead guilty to anything. These "zero tolerance" policies turn into decisions with zero judgement and sense. Indeed, they're intended to remove human judgement from the equation.

gfosco 13y ago

I think you're incorrect about this, and would appreciate a source. From my understanding of pre-trial diversion, it does not involve any admission of guilt... If the defendant does not complete the probation period successfully, the charges are reinstated and dealt with in court. Guilt is not pre-determined.

will_brown 13y ago
You are correct there is no admission or guilty plea involved.

dopamean 13y ago

As someone who has been prosecuted for a crime in Florida (it was semi-serious) and has had a few friends enter the pre-trial diversion program there I would like to point a few things out. Pre-trial diversion isn't cheap if you are of limited means. You have monthly fees you have to pay and you likely have fines and penalties to pay too. A lapse in any of those payments can result in what is called a "writ" being issued. It is essentially a bench warrant for your arrest. I have had this happen to me. It sucks. Kiera is 14 and so I'm going to give her the benefit of the doubt that she is not a drug user. However, if she is she better get clean soon. Florida loves to drug test people in an attempt to violate them on their probation. A failed drug test will have you removed from the diversion program and you will face the original charges in court. Finally, if the diversion program is completed without incident there are some lasting effects. Even though the charges will ultimately go away there are some things that wont. For instance, a friend of mine recently applied for a job that did not simply ask if he had been convicted of a felony. It asked specifically if he had ever pleaded guilty, nolo contendere, or entered a pre-trial diversion program. Completing the program smoothly does not necessarily mean that this incident will be completely over for her. Shame on the DA in this county for moving forward in this way. The police were stupid to arrest her in the first place but hey, that's what they do. Proceeding with criminal charges, particularly in a case where no one was hurt and no property was damaged, is completely at the discretion of the DA. This is bullshit and no one should be pleased with this outcome.

u2328 13y ago
This is disgusting. Is this really how Florida treats its own? I grew up in Southern California and I blew out the circuits on my junior high's science building once. I got a firm talking to, a two-day suspension, and a uncool nickname out of it, but that was it.
- will_brown 13y ago
  It is worse than you think, here is a small excerpt about Florida students: In Florida, students have been arrested for bringing a plastic butter knife to school, throwing an eraser, and drawing a picture of a gun. The eleven-year-old who allegedly brought a plastic butter knife to school was handcuffed, taken to jail, and charged with a third-degree felony. Legislation recently passed unanimously by the Florida Senate could change all that by prohibiting schools from calling the police for nonviolent misdemeanors. "Throw an eraser and they want to call it throwing a deadly missile, which is a felony," said state Sen. Stephen Wise (R-Jacksonville), the senate sponsor of the legislation, which has yet to clear the state house. "When you get into the juvenile justice system everybody thinks your sins are forgiven when you turn 18, and I will assure you that doesn't happen. It's a blemish on your record." http://www.eagleforum.org/educate/2009/june09/zero-tolerance-states.html http://www.eagleforum.org/educate/2009/june09/zero-tolerance... I am personally aware of two FL elementary cases one where a student was charged for throwing a deadly missle, which was a paper ball, and the other a boy kissed a girl on the school playground and was charged with sexual harassment. I wish I could say I am joking...

will_brown 13y ago

You are correct about the probation portion, but she did not plead guilty to enter diversion, it is typically no contest to the charges until she completes the diversion program (probation) then the no contest is converted to either a "nolle prosecution" or "withhold of adjudication". Otherwise I agree with you this is not the same as the State dropping the charges, but this is not the same as a guilty plea or conviction. Additionally, the record is not erased, but she would have the option to seal or expunge her record after a period of time governed by Florida Statute. Of course both military and Feds can always see sealed/expunged records (not that the public will not generally remember this name for some time to come) and if she ever wanted to join a bar (despite being interested in science now, this experience may encourage her to become an attorney fight this kind of injustice on a daily basis), they generally make you unseal your record.

criley 13y ago

Dude, did you read the article: >"The pending case has been dismissed. No formal charges will be filed," read the office's statement.