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Lies on the London Underground [video]
- zng 14y agoWhile people are generally discussing their discomfort with using the tube I'd just like to chip in my main concern with it being around 50 Celcius constantly year round down there.... (yes, I exaggerate slightly, but not by much!)
- lukethegeek 14y agoI've often taken the Kings Cross exit towards the trains and wondered why the hell it was so long.. Now I know better >:)
- CJefferson 14y agoI don't understand the "lie". So, there are times you can walk faster between tube stations than you can travel on the tube. The map doesn't seem to claim otherwise.
- brazzy 14y ago> The map doesn't seem to claim otherwise. Yes, it does. The tube map at 0:21 makes it look like the walking distance between Lancaster Gate and Paddington is about 75% of the tube distance. What you see at 0:48 is a regular map, which shows that it's more like 10%
- mcdowall 14y agoIt's a Schematic not Geo map. The Tube map is not intended for walking.
- balabaster 14y agoThe lie isn't that you can walk faster between two points on the map than by taking one or more trains... the lie is that by following the signs, you can get from one train to the next in the most efficient manner. People expect signs to take them on the most efficient route... they don't expect to be routed half way around London to get from one train to the next when a short escalator ride to the surface and through 2 doors you can achieve your same goal... ... though it is a low tech solution to an otherwise extremely costly redesign of the station.
- Nursie 14y agoHeh. There are shortcuts through the stations, and unmarked turnings to places you want to go that are quicker than the marked ones, when you get to know the stations you change at frequently.
- RobAley 14y agoThe most efficient route isn't necessarily the safest, in terms of routing large numbers of people underground.
- megablast 14y agoThis is still stretching the "lie" bit though. Just because you are not shown the quickest route does not make it wrong, or a lie.
- tezza 14y agoI think they have sacrified efficiency for no crushes or stampedes. I don't class it as a 'lie' to quietly favour crowds flowing in a safe manner over the quickest route. They are the experts in what is safe for peak crowds, not some bloggers. Of course I regard it a 'lie' that the platform crowding at places like Bank is very safe at all.
- simonw 14y agoDid you watch the video all the way through? Their closing conclusion is that London Underground are experts in what is safe for peak crowds. Calling it a "lie" is effective headline writing.
- alexkus 14y agoThere are various "walking tube maps" that show you where it's quicker to walk between two stations:- http://rodcorp.typepad.com/rodcorp/images/tube_walklines_final_lm.gif http://rodcorp.typepad.com/rodcorp/images/tube_walklines_fin...
- Nursie 14y agoThe best thing about London underground, now that I no longer live in London, is that it's not me with the long, grey, miserable face any longer. Next time you're on the tube, especially at commuter time, take a look up and down the carriage at all the miserable sods slumped there, and try to smile. I find it hard to suppress outright laughter these days.
- jgrahamc 14y agoThis is why I prefer to cycle for 40 minutes (each way) to the office even when it rains.
- Zenst 14y agoA Cycle in London when it rains is better as the air is cleaner then due to the rain clearing out some of the crap from the air, and the pollen this time of the year. Though the tube no better, can still get a black soot build up from legacy old days when they ran steam trains along the tracks and used coal, still soot built up that gets disloged even after all these years. Many tunnels it built up upon and with that can get a tissue and clear your ears and nose and the build up is greater than the old days of being in a smokers pub with all the windows and doors closed for twice the duration of your tube time. But some lines better than others and newer, parts of the Northern line (black line on the tube map) I always found very aptly coloured when compared to post travel nose and ear tissue. I also hope you have a travel camera, so can name and shame those nutter drivers on youtube like some people do. I certainly would not wish to brave the roads of central London upon a cycle due to the danger aspect from other road users, not for the faint hearted.
- corin_ 14y agoOne thing they didn't mention about the last example - which way to go on the Victoria platform at KX, is that if you get off down the other end of the platform, exit signs do point the shorter way - they divide it up so 20-30% go the quick way, the rest get pointed the longer route.
- blowski 14y agoAnother good reason for odd connections is that it's easier to guide people on common routes. For example, around Bank and Monument, it's often quicker to walk above ground - but only if you already know the route. If you're a tourist, you're herded underground with very clear signs. It's like progressive disclosure in software. By requiring some level of expertise even to see the options, you help to ensure that novices can't accidentally break things (in theory, at least). Imagine what would happen if TfL did this explicitly with signs saying: <-- Quick route that way :: Easy route that way --> They're making the decision for you, assuming that if you're not sure, then you need the easy route. Other examples of this in the physical world: * The 'Black diamond' lane in airports (especially when they weren't advertised) * Special unadvertised rates in hotels * Theme parks with tickets for bypassing queues, though when these are advertised, they're more like price discrimination than progressive disclosure.
- mcdowall 14y agoExactly. In our new beta site (yet to launch) Walking and Cycling are right up front alongside public transport so we're pushing more options to the user.
- thinkersilver 14y agoThe signs aren't always very clear. King's Cross being the worst culprit. Arriving on the Northern Line then changing to the Circle line, will take a few minutes or almost 10 depending on which end of the train you get off. This happened to me a few weeks ago when I blindly followed the signs right in front of me. The directions are different depending on which end of the train you get off.
- JDGM 14y agoThanks so much for posting this. I was wondering why since the redesign my movement at Kings Cross was taking so much longer than the route my parents would take with me as a kid going to London for day trips to the Science Museum or zoo. If I lived in London I'd like to think I would make a project out of finding all the shortcuts and hacks like this applicable to my routine. I'm sure the video is only the tip of the iceberg (especially as Tom Scott generally really knows how to make his stuff short and sweet - anyone else feel the video was edited to pretty much perfection?).
- philbarr 14y ago> I would make a project out of finding all the shortcuts and hacks like this applicable to my routine I'm often amazed at how often people don't do this. The last place I worked was always a nightmare to get to because of traffic, so I worked out all the possible shortcuts I could take depending on where the congestion was. I thought everyone did, until I was discussing this with colleagues who then revealed they just set off for work earlier. One of them even lived right nearby and didn't know some of these shortcuts - all you needed was google maps.
- ig1 14y agoKings Cross has undergone several major overhauls over the last few decades, there's a good chance that the routes have changed.
- mseebach 14y agoSo, people are "on to" the lies. At my local station (Archway), at the bottom of the escalators, there are two paths to the platforms, and they are routed one way to correspond well with the direction of the escalators. Except, people will happily walk into the wrong direction in their quest to one-up the system, often causing other passengers to have to dodge oncoming traffic, even at off-peak times. But I get it, I measured it out once. One of the tunnels is 12 steps longer than the other.
- workbench 14y agoThis is dumb, you're not meant to use it to go 5 minutes up the road.
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- boothead 14y agoThank the Lord that thus far I haven't had to get a tube as part of my commute! The overground every day is bad enough, and I almost always get a seat and can look out of the window there. Roll on the day where working from home as a developer is the default rather than a rare privilege!
- petercooper 14y agoYou often get these sorts of "lies" on the road network. Signs will attempt to send you on a lengthy jaunt around the outside of a town even if the road through town is major and quicker. Google Maps and sat nav devices tend to send you the more direct route, however, so I wonder if this technique may prove useless in future and force significant redesigns or even laws to prevent navigational devices making these suggestions. A memorable one for me is the A6/A7 through Lyon (France). The signs are adamant you should take a 10 mile detour to head south of Lyon despite the A6 (solely marked as "Lyon Centre") going in a straight line under the city without interruption. August is probably the only time it makes sense and even then the entire A6 is blocked as it is..
- michaelt 14y agoUsers generally want the fastest route, which is congestion-dependent. If they directed everyone down the shortcut it would become congested, and wouldn't be the fastest route any more, and you'd be asking why they directed everyone down it :-)
- joosters 14y agoA good moment to plug the book 'Traffic' - http://tomvanderbilt.com/traffic/the-book/ http://tomvanderbilt.com/traffic/the-book/ A good (geeky) read about all kinds of traffic issues including routing.
- dominicgs 14y agoThis isn't too far away from Braess's paradox[1], which is based upon drivers making assumptions about the quickest path and attempting to optimize their journey at the cost of everyone's journey time. It works for network traffic too as OSPF will pick the shortest path, but we can alter routing tables to correct for that. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braess%27s_paradox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braess%27s_paradox
- sopooneo 14y agoElectric current comes to mind.
- 14y ago
- Foomandoonian 14y agoRelevant: 'Here’s how central London would look if the Tube map was geographically correct' http://www.mapfodder.com/london.html http://www.mapfodder.com/london.html
- tommorris 14y agoAnd Wikipedia has a geographically accurate tube map: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:London_Underground_full_map.png https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:London_Underground_f... ;)
- arethuza 14y agoFor some reason I find that map quite disturbing - like I'm very very drunk and looking at a "proper" Tube map.
- ziko 14y agoTube map doesn't say it's scaled so therefore the argument 'look how close these two stations are on the map' isn't valid.
- sambeau 14y agoBank is the Hogwarts of tube stations.
- sdfjkl 14y agoIt took me 2 years to learn the warren that is the Bank/Monument complex and figure out efficient shortcuts (by purposely ignoring the signs). Then someone made this: http://stations.aeracode.org/#bnk http://stations.aeracode.org/#bnk
- mbesto 14y agoFirst, get this off of HN please. I don't see the direct relevance. Second, if this does have some relevance to HN with regards to usability, then this is a usability success, not a failure. Are there more efficient ways for one person to navigate the tube system. Absolutely. Does this means it will be efficient for all. No.
- swombat 14y agoYou seem unreasonably grumpy... take a breath, chill out. I enjoyed the video and upvoted it - as did many others, clearly. It's of interest to hackers. Tom Scott is also "one of us" - a geek comedian. Probably one of the reasons why others have been upvoting this. You might enjoy this excellent video of his talk at Ignite a few years back: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyMdOT8YJgY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyMdOT8YJgY
- arethuza 14y ago"You seem unreasonably grumpy" Probably came into work via the Tube :-)
- mbesto 14y agoHehe, fair enough. Sorry if you thought my tone was a bit off! I don't know who the author is or what he does, I'm just getting increasingly frustrated with the content that's upvoted on this site. as did many others, clearly I, like many longstanding active members here, care about the community and I don't see the relevance. It has nothing to do with hacking, entrepreneurship, or is generally all that interesting. But the author got my click, my eyeballs and my response, so he wins. ps - Didn't take the tube in, I work from home :) I think the tube is very well maintained actually.
- laumars 14y agoI thought this was going to be about the hidden stations, defunct tunnels and some of the ghost stories surrounding the London Underground (not that I'm in any way trying to undermine the point of that video either). The London Underground fascinates me. The number of older rail networks (there was once a stretch of tunnels that were little wider than a crouched person and used either for mail or money - i forget which). The tunnels used during WWII as Churchill's bunker. The closed stations that feel like eerie to walk around. The hidden tunnel that were dug at Tottenham Court Road purely as a way to displace the other dirt due to the logistics of the location of the station. The experiments with spiral escalators...and so on. It's a great marvel to think what the Victorians gave us Londoners more than 100 years ago. They saw out the old century with a world pioneering transport network. Then 100 years on, a technologically superior country decides to celebrate it's century with a big, ugly dome. :(
- dasmoth 14y agohttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mail_rail http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mail_rail
- laumars 14y agoThat's the one. Thank you :) There's so much infrastructure below the streets of London - it never ceases to impress and interest me.
- Yhippa 14y agoPardon my ignorance but what is this dome you speak of?
- lukethegeek 14y agoMillennium dome. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Dome http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Dome
- corin_ 14y agohttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Dome http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Dome Now privately owned as the O2 Arena: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_O2_Arena http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_O2_Arena
- peteri 14y agoThe Kings Cross example is in part due to the new Eurostar terminal at St Pancras. The newer exit is much nearer to St Pancras so if the test had been the Eurostar entrance then I'm not sure who would have won. Given the location of the new concourse this is not as bad as it used to be. I suspect it would however be better if they sign posted the old exit onto the Euston Road as being for the buses stops, otherwise you end up walking for 5 minutes in the wrong direction and have to double back when you get above ground.
- lifeisstillgood 14y agoWhen I was a fresh-faced student in London, I had to go from the Strand to Covent Garden. This is about 500 yards. Or three changes on the tube. Guess which one I took? Eventually one works this all out, you know which doors to stand at to be close to the exit on your next station, why going up down stairwells is a popular pasttime, that St Pauls and the City are warrens of short cuts, something that is not possible in boringly grid like cities such as Manhattan. Really guys. I have walked across half of Manhatten and just counted the streets and never gotten lost. I can get lost in ten minutes in central London. Stumbling across random streets you have never seen in twenty years of living in London - that's what I call a "proper" city.