4 ms·

I am currently contracting for a company in London, using more or less the same technologies as you do. They asked me to help build their team as well, so I kno

by hcho 13y ago

I am currently contracting for a company in London, using more or less the same technologies as you do. They asked me to help build their team as well, so I know both sides of the table. I would not even think twice offering a job to someone decent with javascript at £45K. The job is 9-to-5, the company is mature, has been around for 2 decades, will probably still be in another 2. They'd be in the comfort of knowing that their salary will be in their account at each and every end of month. Betting companies are pushing the market upwards. Every person who took another offer over mine went to a betting company. So I have a feeling that I am only pitching for people who are morally against betting. So are you paying that kind of money? I have a feeling that you'd have to pay at least £10K over for my offer to compensate for the inherent uncertainty and as a premium the find that person quick.

nkoren 13y ago
Yes, I'm certainly expecting to pay around £50k for the lower-level developers; significantly more for the lead developer, and meaningful equity to boot. Unfortunately people see "startup" and assume that this means "sweat equity, slave wages". I don't believe in running a business that way -- haven't done it with my last two startups (both of which have been successful), and won't do it with this one either. But apparently stating that I'm offering competitive salaries isn't enough to convince people that I'm really offering, you know, competitive salaries. Is there a better way to drive this message home?
- hcho 13y ago
  Maybe you can delay revealing the fact that you are a startup. Don't mention the equity till you come to negotiation, drop "Silicon Roundabout" from your job pages. Most developers have been burnt by startups at least once. I'd try not to remind the bad experiences before I have at least a chance to talk to them in person.
  - nkoren 13y ago
    Yes, the word "startup" does seem to cause many developers to jump to wildly false conclusions about how much I intend to pay, what kind of backing I have, what the working conditions will be like, etc. This is a surprise to me! Anyhow, I think you've given some very good advice, and I'll take it. Will you be at tomorrows's HNLondon meetup? I'd love to pick your brain for more advice on how to build a team here -- if not there, then perhaps over coffee sometime. Email me at nathan@podaris.com if you're interested.
    - hcho 13y ago
      I won't be attending tomorrow's meetup. I'll drop you an email.
      - nkoren 13y ago
        Great, I look forward to it!
    - groundCode 13y ago
      I think this is certainly happending - my own first reaction to your job ad was "meh....equity over salary for a product that yesterday I didn't know existed"..... fwiw and from my perspective perhaps the problem is that you aren't advertising the salary you are offering - you want someone with significant experience - so we aren't talking about a recent graduate here, but someone with significant technical lead experience - experience most often comes with (at least a bit of) age and age comes with other responsibilities like family, kids, mortgage etc. Now they also have to believe in your product - so either they've already thought of it, or they need it sold to them. maybe you need to go developer courting rather than waiting for them to drop through your door?
      - nkoren 13y ago
        I've been actively courting developers for a few weeks now. I've found loads of qualified developers who are willing to freelance for a couple of months -- which unfortunately excludes them from consideration for the kind of roles I need. You're perhaps right that explicitly stating the salary might be a better way to go. I've been patterning my job listings after those of more established companies, which generally do not state their salaries upfront. But when people see that we're a new company, their immediate assumptions are so negative (and wrong) that perhaps we need to go the extra mile to overcome those...

by hcho 13y ago

nkoren 13y ago

Yes, I'm certainly expecting to pay around £50k for the lower-level developers; significantly more for the lead developer, and meaningful equity to boot. Unfortunately people see "startup" and assume that this means "sweat equity, slave wages". I don't believe in running a business that way -- haven't done it with my last two startups (both of which have been successful), and won't do it with this one either. But apparently stating that I'm offering competitive salaries isn't enough to convince people that I'm really offering, you know, competitive salaries. Is there a better way to drive this message home?

hcho 13y ago
Maybe you can delay revealing the fact that you are a startup. Don't mention the equity till you come to negotiation, drop "Silicon Roundabout" from your job pages. Most developers have been burnt by startups at least once. I'd try not to remind the bad experiences before I have at least a chance to talk to them in person.
- nkoren 13y ago
  Yes, the word "startup" does seem to cause many developers to jump to wildly false conclusions about how much I intend to pay, what kind of backing I have, what the working conditions will be like, etc. This is a surprise to me! Anyhow, I think you've given some very good advice, and I'll take it. Will you be at tomorrows's HNLondon meetup? I'd love to pick your brain for more advice on how to build a team here -- if not there, then perhaps over coffee sometime. Email me at nathan@podaris.com if you're interested.
  - hcho 13y ago
    I won't be attending tomorrow's meetup. I'll drop you an email.
    - nkoren 13y ago
      Great, I look forward to it!
  - groundCode 13y ago
    I think this is certainly happending - my own first reaction to your job ad was "meh....equity over salary for a product that yesterday I didn't know existed"..... fwiw and from my perspective perhaps the problem is that you aren't advertising the salary you are offering - you want someone with significant experience - so we aren't talking about a recent graduate here, but someone with significant technical lead experience - experience most often comes with (at least a bit of) age and age comes with other responsibilities like family, kids, mortgage etc. Now they also have to believe in your product - so either they've already thought of it, or they need it sold to them. maybe you need to go developer courting rather than waiting for them to drop through your door?
    - nkoren 13y ago
      I've been actively courting developers for a few weeks now. I've found loads of qualified developers who are willing to freelance for a couple of months -- which unfortunately excludes them from consideration for the kind of roles I need. You're perhaps right that explicitly stating the salary might be a better way to go. I've been patterning my job listings after those of more established companies, which generally do not state their salaries upfront. But when people see that we're a new company, their immediate assumptions are so negative (and wrong) that perhaps we need to go the extra mile to overcome those...