8 ms·

New App Lets You Boycott Koch Brothers, Monsanto And More

117 points by duggieawesome 13y ago

svmegatron 13y ago
Awesome! I've been working on something similar: http://www.collectiveoffset.com/ http://www.collectiveoffset.com/ I think this is an interesting concept and it will be cool to see how this space evolves!
- zarify 13y ago
  Interesting, as it accepts that we're likely to buy stuff from companies we don't like regardless (very difficult to avoid in some spaces). Mixed feeling about the offset idea in general however.
- alloftheabove 13y ago
  Cool project. I actually don't like the use of offset however. Why do I want to offset Chic Fil A? If I don't even eat there--I don't have anything to offset. Offset also makes me feel like I am helping to return to the current status quo. What if I don't want the status quo? What if I just want to fight Chic Fil A? I think that the idea that users contributing a small amount of money to combat the negative spending of some corporations is incredibly sticky. ("Look at the power of my small dollars! I'm making this evil corporation burn their money!"). But how do you convince visitors to the site that this math adds up? Users may want to donate but would probably be more likely to donate if they were convinced their dollars had that much power. Maybe an infographic explaining it?
benjohnson 13y ago
As a someone who supports the right to life, you'd think I'd be interested in this app, but on reflection, I not interested. Turning everything in ones life in to a form of politics would be way too draining I'd think and ultimately not a productive as one would like. I'd rather spend ten minutes a day helping on a suicide prevention hotline, or donating resources to newly expectant mothers, than try to ferret out every last connection to abortion clinics by furtively scanning bar-codes every time I went shopping.
- guelo 13y ago
  Abortion clinics are tiny businesses compared to giant conglomerates like Koch. I don't think there's much boycotting you could do even if you wanted to.
  - rdl 13y ago
    Arguably you could boycott everyone who funds abortion clinics (e.g. Warren Buffett who is the #1 donor to Planned Parenthood). So, no NetJets for you. I agree it becomes really silly beyond one or maybe two steps. IBM in the 1930s was about the limit of "second degree hate"; I'd still have been happy to mow the lawn of IBM employees back then. I probably would have had problems doing business with IBM directly if I'd known all the details. The only transactions I'd have done with nazis were sell side death transactions, i.e. real life Castle Wolfenstein.
    - saalweachter 13y ago
      You also get a certain amount of milage out of limited boycotts and only a little extra beyond that. The Koch brothers probably aren't going to change their behavior no matter how much boycotts cut into their bottom line. If you cut off all revenue to every business they have an interest in, and everyone in the world refused to send them another dime even by buying up their failing businesses at fire sale prices, they would still be richer in their cash holdings than most people ever dream of being. They'd continue to have more influence on world affairs than most small nations. On the other hand, most large corporations are more interested in money than politics, and politics is just a side game. So a moderately successful boycott of a single or small number of products sends enough of a signal back to corporate headquarters to change their behavior. If Whirlygig sales drop 10% because of their policy on Foozles, they aren't going to wait for Fizzbuzz sales to follow, they're going to reverse course immediately.
- boi_v2 13y ago
  So you prefer to spend your life doing band-aid actions instead trying to fix the probem in it's root, that is, money in the wrong pockets. All these problems you prefer to work with are consequence of an unfair and corrupt system that is screaming for a fix. These anti-ethical companies are the ones responsable for turning politics and democracy (if it exists) into a mere tool for personal and not social profit. Read a book called The Black Book on Brand Companies and start scanning barcodes.
kevinthew 13y ago
So what exactly makes the Koch Brothers and Monsanto worse than Facebook (also a horrible political lobbying monster corporation)? Because they're not tech companies who your friends work at?
- Shivetya 13y ago
  because the first has the audacity to not agree with the left and the second is a corporation who patents genetics and similar? Really it all comes down to irrational hate by one side or the other and unfortunately this type of irrationality is best observed on sites like Hacker's News and Slashdot, Digg was bad too in its good days. The level of pretentiousness is astounding, but fortunately other than up/down/karma and bombastic posts the members of such sites do little else.
- onan_barbarian 13y ago
  I am not sure that the target audience for the app is identically opposed to "lobbying" and "big corporations" for any player. They might feel that there's something particularly repugnant in the goals or ideology of Koch Brothers or Monsanto that doesn't apply to Facebook. Further, you are unlikely to accidentally buy Facebook-owned breakfast cereal. But nice try at sophomore cynicism.
- aaronbrethorst 13y ago
  Koch Brothers: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-10-02/koch-brothers-flout-law-getting-richer-with-secret-iran-sales.html?nr_email_referer=1 http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-10-02/koch-brothers-flout... Monsanto: poisoned people with Agent Orange, DDT, and polychlorinated biphenyls (re PCBs: http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0101-02.htm http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0101-02.htm) Facebook: ???. I guess their CEO is an arrogant, 20-something billionaire, and they play fast and loose with online privacy. They have yet to kill anyone or commit treason[1]. So there's that. [1] Or, as they'd call it on Arrested Development, "light treason"
  - tptacek 13y ago
    So, you're going to boycott every other company that dumped PCBs and pesticides and other carcinogens into groundwater, right?
protomyth 13y ago
So, the evolution of this is some app running in your glasses that rates everyone you meet on some criteria based on what your preferred media source(1) (e.g. MSNBC, Fox News) says about the companies they buy from and the artists/writers/politicians they like. 1) note, facts require research not punditry
jbigelow76 13y ago
The Revolution will be an In App Purchase.
harryf 13y ago
The iOS app appears nicely designed but the server side is struggling. Couldn't create an account, app website is very slow http://buycott.com http://buycott.com Looks like Ivan could use some help
jack-r-abbit 13y ago
Honestly, this sounds like just too much trouble and I guess I just don't really care enough. If I refused to buy anything that was made or sold by anyone that had ever done harm to anyone, I'd probably starve to death... homeless & naked. I've spent the last 2 years reading the label of every food item I buy my son because he's allergic to eggs and soy (and we avoid nuts because we're too afraid we'll kill him with one) so I can tell you a little something about how much of a pain it is to scrutinize every single item you purchase. It is not as easy as it sounds. And even if there is an app for that... it will still suck. Personally... I don't think this is worth it. To each their own.
- AJ007 13y ago
  Consider the possibility that the point is to not purchase consumer goods from corporations.
  - jack-r-abbit 13y ago
    Unless I buy everything on Etsy.... aren't most things coming from corporations?
    - gurkendoktor 13y ago
      > If I refused to buy anything that was made or sold by anyone that had ever done harm to anyone, I'd probably starve to death... Boycotting does not have to turn into a religion that drives you into starvation. You can just try to support the less evil choice, or only when you have time to spare.
      - jack-r-abbit 13y ago
        And ultimately... that is why this type of activism usually fails eventually. First, in order to pick the lesser of two evils, you still need to scrutinize every item so you know which one is the less evil. That still takes time and after doing it a few times and realizing your trip to the market, etc took twice as long as it should, many people will not continue. This app has been all over my Facebook feed. So I imagine a decent number of my friends shared it... but probably didn't install it. That is not any more useful than changing your profile pic "to support" what ever cause is viral this month. Of those that did install it, you've given them the out they need... only when you have time to spare. After trying it a few times and seeing how it effects their life, maybe that one time they are in a hurry and don't have to time to figure it out, they just go with it. Reminding them just how much work the boycott is. But that was just one little fudge... they'll do better next time. Right... this little chip in armor is all it takes for so many people to eventually give up. Only the most dedicated people will continue for any length of time that would even be noticed by the corporations... but probably not enough people to make them change. Sure that is a pessimistic, cynical view but tell me you haven't seen this exact set of events happen time and time again. We'd like to hope this time would be different. But history is a pretty good indicator of the future.
kevinpet 13y ago
So you're telling me you get my email, my political inclinations, and my offline purchasing habits. T&C includes the "no class action" and binding arbitration clauses. Privacy policy doesn't actually mention anything about campaigns I use or products I scan, which makes my suspicious mind ... umm... suspicious. At least it omits the "or as otherwise allowed by law" blanket "we do whatever we want" clause. They do say they won't sell or rent personally identifiable information. I'm not sure if they could weasel out of it by using some sort tracking cookie, but it looks like they seem to be limiting themselves to selling aggregate data. I'm not a lawyer, of course, but I don't think I really said anything anyone else can't read for themselves.
- pi18n 13y ago
  I said I was going to get this but just changed my mind. Holy shit. Thanks for posting.
- StavrosK 13y ago
  I don't understand why things just have to be online-enabled nowadays. It seems like this app could be implemented with a daily-updating list of which products belong to which company, but my understanding is that they do a live server check, which wastes data and is very bad for privacy. It seems like "talking to a server" is the default for everything nowadays, even when it doesn't need to be.
  - VLM 13y ago
    "my understanding is that they do a live server check, which wastes data and is very bad for privacy." Hmm so it doesn't work online where I buy tons of stuff from Amazon Prime, and it doesn't work in brick and mortar because my brick and mortar and steel grocery store has absolutely dismal minimal coverage if any (maybe they have a jammer?). I suppose it would work great at the farmers market ... where everything is grown locally and mostly organically so it doesn't have much of a point anymore. Other than stunts in front of a camera for journalists I'm not sure where I could use this app.
    - 13y ago
femto 13y ago
An alternative is to specify generic items (eg. breakfast cereal) and let the program construct a shopping list that most closely fits your criteria (eg. brand XYZ fruity munchies). For each item, maybe offer a pop-up that lists alternatives in descending order, so you are not happy with a suggestion you can easily scan for and select a "next best"? You can then use your shopping list in the normal way. Maybe it could also offer the option to place the order for you, so it becomes an "ethical online shopping" site? Like any other shopping site, your list could be saved and reused/tailored next time. If the status of any item changes, a suggestion to change brands could automatically be made next time the list is used. Funding could be by negotiating a cut of each purchase with the vendor?
quattrofan 13y ago
Nice, now we just need one to avoid products made in Israel.
vijayr 13y ago
wow, this is very interesting. It would be awesome if they can give away the data that powers the app. Others can build their own apps
krugmanlol 13y ago
Can you tell me how to boycott George soros too? No?
krugmanlol 13y ago
Can you tell me how to boycott George soros too? No?
a3n 13y ago
Note: you don't have to do this in the store. You can buy your stuff as usual, scan it at home where you may have better connectivity, and then revise your shopping list for next time. If you get a hit on Choco-bits at home, then you know that you also won't be buying Fruti-bits, as they're both made by Sulfur Industries. I don't think you need to go slowly down the aisle scanning everything with a bad connection.
danilevy 13y ago
That's seriously genius. I can't believe how creative people are honestly. Can't wait to use this app.
tmrggns 13y ago
As I go through a store using this app, a storekeeper stops me, concerned that I'm just using his store for "showcasing". Luckily I'm able to explain to him how the app is helping me not buy many of his products. Once he learns this, he is much relieved and lets me go on my way.

117 points by duggieawesome 13y ago

Awesome! I've been working on something similar: http://www.collectiveoffset.com/ http://www.collectiveoffset.com/ I think this is an interesting concept and it will be cool to see how this space evolves!

zarify 13y ago
Interesting, as it accepts that we're likely to buy stuff from companies we don't like regardless (very difficult to avoid in some spaces). Mixed feeling about the offset idea in general however.
alloftheabove 13y ago
Cool project. I actually don't like the use of offset however. Why do I want to offset Chic Fil A? If I don't even eat there--I don't have anything to offset. Offset also makes me feel like I am helping to return to the current status quo. What if I don't want the status quo? What if I just want to fight Chic Fil A? I think that the idea that users contributing a small amount of money to combat the negative spending of some corporations is incredibly sticky. ("Look at the power of my small dollars! I'm making this evil corporation burn their money!"). But how do you convince visitors to the site that this math adds up? Users may want to donate but would probably be more likely to donate if they were convinced their dollars had that much power. Maybe an infographic explaining it?

benjohnson 13y ago

As a someone who supports the right to life, you'd think I'd be interested in this app, but on reflection, I not interested. Turning everything in ones life in to a form of politics would be way too draining I'd think and ultimately not a productive as one would like. I'd rather spend ten minutes a day helping on a suicide prevention hotline, or donating resources to newly expectant mothers, than try to ferret out every last connection to abortion clinics by furtively scanning bar-codes every time I went shopping.

guelo 13y ago
Abortion clinics are tiny businesses compared to giant conglomerates like Koch. I don't think there's much boycotting you could do even if you wanted to.
- rdl 13y ago
  Arguably you could boycott everyone who funds abortion clinics (e.g. Warren Buffett who is the #1 donor to Planned Parenthood). So, no NetJets for you. I agree it becomes really silly beyond one or maybe two steps. IBM in the 1930s was about the limit of "second degree hate"; I'd still have been happy to mow the lawn of IBM employees back then. I probably would have had problems doing business with IBM directly if I'd known all the details. The only transactions I'd have done with nazis were sell side death transactions, i.e. real life Castle Wolfenstein.
  - saalweachter 13y ago
    You also get a certain amount of milage out of limited boycotts and only a little extra beyond that. The Koch brothers probably aren't going to change their behavior no matter how much boycotts cut into their bottom line. If you cut off all revenue to every business they have an interest in, and everyone in the world refused to send them another dime even by buying up their failing businesses at fire sale prices, they would still be richer in their cash holdings than most people ever dream of being. They'd continue to have more influence on world affairs than most small nations. On the other hand, most large corporations are more interested in money than politics, and politics is just a side game. So a moderately successful boycott of a single or small number of products sends enough of a signal back to corporate headquarters to change their behavior. If Whirlygig sales drop 10% because of their policy on Foozles, they aren't going to wait for Fizzbuzz sales to follow, they're going to reverse course immediately.
boi_v2 13y ago
So you prefer to spend your life doing band-aid actions instead trying to fix the probem in it's root, that is, money in the wrong pockets. All these problems you prefer to work with are consequence of an unfair and corrupt system that is screaming for a fix. These anti-ethical companies are the ones responsable for turning politics and democracy (if it exists) into a mere tool for personal and not social profit. Read a book called The Black Book on Brand Companies and start scanning barcodes.

kevinthew 13y ago

So what exactly makes the Koch Brothers and Monsanto worse than Facebook (also a horrible political lobbying monster corporation)? Because they're not tech companies who your friends work at?

Shivetya 13y ago
because the first has the audacity to not agree with the left and the second is a corporation who patents genetics and similar? Really it all comes down to irrational hate by one side or the other and unfortunately this type of irrationality is best observed on sites like Hacker's News and Slashdot, Digg was bad too in its good days. The level of pretentiousness is astounding, but fortunately other than up/down/karma and bombastic posts the members of such sites do little else.
onan_barbarian 13y ago
I am not sure that the target audience for the app is identically opposed to "lobbying" and "big corporations" for any player. They might feel that there's something particularly repugnant in the goals or ideology of Koch Brothers or Monsanto that doesn't apply to Facebook. Further, you are unlikely to accidentally buy Facebook-owned breakfast cereal. But nice try at sophomore cynicism.
aaronbrethorst 13y ago
Koch Brothers: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-10-02/koch-brothers-flout-law-getting-richer-with-secret-iran-sales.html?nr_email_referer=1 http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-10-02/koch-brothers-flout... Monsanto: poisoned people with Agent Orange, DDT, and polychlorinated biphenyls (re PCBs: http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0101-02.htm http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0101-02.htm) Facebook: ???. I guess their CEO is an arrogant, 20-something billionaire, and they play fast and loose with online privacy. They have yet to kill anyone or commit treason[1]. So there's that. [1] Or, as they'd call it on Arrested Development, "light treason"
- tptacek 13y ago
  So, you're going to boycott every other company that dumped PCBs and pesticides and other carcinogens into groundwater, right?

protomyth 13y ago

So, the evolution of this is some app running in your glasses that rates everyone you meet on some criteria based on what your preferred media source(1) (e.g. MSNBC, Fox News) says about the companies they buy from and the artists/writers/politicians they like. 1) note, facts require research not punditry

jbigelow76 13y ago

The Revolution will be an In App Purchase.

harryf 13y ago

The iOS app appears nicely designed but the server side is struggling. Couldn't create an account, app website is very slow http://buycott.com http://buycott.com Looks like Ivan could use some help

jack-r-abbit 13y ago

Honestly, this sounds like just too much trouble and I guess I just don't really care enough. If I refused to buy anything that was made or sold by anyone that had ever done harm to anyone, I'd probably starve to death... homeless & naked. I've spent the last 2 years reading the label of every food item I buy my son because he's allergic to eggs and soy (and we avoid nuts because we're too afraid we'll kill him with one) so I can tell you a little something about how much of a pain it is to scrutinize every single item you purchase. It is not as easy as it sounds. And even if there is an app for that... it will still suck. Personally... I don't think this is worth it. To each their own.

AJ007 13y ago
Consider the possibility that the point is to not purchase consumer goods from corporations.
- jack-r-abbit 13y ago
  Unless I buy everything on Etsy.... aren't most things coming from corporations?
  - gurkendoktor 13y ago
    > If I refused to buy anything that was made or sold by anyone that had ever done harm to anyone, I'd probably starve to death... Boycotting does not have to turn into a religion that drives you into starvation. You can just try to support the less evil choice, or only when you have time to spare.
    - jack-r-abbit 13y ago
      And ultimately... that is why this type of activism usually fails eventually. First, in order to pick the lesser of two evils, you still need to scrutinize every item so you know which one is the less evil. That still takes time and after doing it a few times and realizing your trip to the market, etc took twice as long as it should, many people will not continue. This app has been all over my Facebook feed. So I imagine a decent number of my friends shared it... but probably didn't install it. That is not any more useful than changing your profile pic "to support" what ever cause is viral this month. Of those that did install it, you've given them the out they need... only when you have time to spare. After trying it a few times and seeing how it effects their life, maybe that one time they are in a hurry and don't have to time to figure it out, they just go with it. Reminding them just how much work the boycott is. But that was just one little fudge... they'll do better next time. Right... this little chip in armor is all it takes for so many people to eventually give up. Only the most dedicated people will continue for any length of time that would even be noticed by the corporations... but probably not enough people to make them change. Sure that is a pessimistic, cynical view but tell me you haven't seen this exact set of events happen time and time again. We'd like to hope this time would be different. But history is a pretty good indicator of the future.

kevinpet 13y ago

So you're telling me you get my email, my political inclinations, and my offline purchasing habits. T&C includes the "no class action" and binding arbitration clauses. Privacy policy doesn't actually mention anything about campaigns I use or products I scan, which makes my suspicious mind ... umm... suspicious. At least it omits the "or as otherwise allowed by law" blanket "we do whatever we want" clause. They do say they won't sell or rent personally identifiable information. I'm not sure if they could weasel out of it by using some sort tracking cookie, but it looks like they seem to be limiting themselves to selling aggregate data. I'm not a lawyer, of course, but I don't think I really said anything anyone else can't read for themselves.

pi18n 13y ago
I said I was going to get this but just changed my mind. Holy shit. Thanks for posting.
StavrosK 13y ago
I don't understand why things just have to be online-enabled nowadays. It seems like this app could be implemented with a daily-updating list of which products belong to which company, but my understanding is that they do a live server check, which wastes data and is very bad for privacy. It seems like "talking to a server" is the default for everything nowadays, even when it doesn't need to be.
- VLM 13y ago
  "my understanding is that they do a live server check, which wastes data and is very bad for privacy." Hmm so it doesn't work online where I buy tons of stuff from Amazon Prime, and it doesn't work in brick and mortar because my brick and mortar and steel grocery store has absolutely dismal minimal coverage if any (maybe they have a jammer?). I suppose it would work great at the farmers market ... where everything is grown locally and mostly organically so it doesn't have much of a point anymore. Other than stunts in front of a camera for journalists I'm not sure where I could use this app.
  - 13y ago

femto 13y ago

An alternative is to specify generic items (eg. breakfast cereal) and let the program construct a shopping list that most closely fits your criteria (eg. brand XYZ fruity munchies). For each item, maybe offer a pop-up that lists alternatives in descending order, so you are not happy with a suggestion you can easily scan for and select a "next best"? You can then use your shopping list in the normal way. Maybe it could also offer the option to place the order for you, so it becomes an "ethical online shopping" site? Like any other shopping site, your list could be saved and reused/tailored next time. If the status of any item changes, a suggestion to change brands could automatically be made next time the list is used. Funding could be by negotiating a cut of each purchase with the vendor?

quattrofan 13y ago

Nice, now we just need one to avoid products made in Israel.

vijayr 13y ago

wow, this is very interesting. It would be awesome if they can give away the data that powers the app. Others can build their own apps

krugmanlol 13y ago

Can you tell me how to boycott George soros too? No?

krugmanlol 13y ago

Can you tell me how to boycott George soros too? No?

a3n 13y ago

Note: you don't have to do this in the store. You can buy your stuff as usual, scan it at home where you may have better connectivity, and then revise your shopping list for next time. If you get a hit on Choco-bits at home, then you know that you also won't be buying Fruti-bits, as they're both made by Sulfur Industries. I don't think you need to go slowly down the aisle scanning everything with a bad connection.

danilevy 13y ago

That's seriously genius. I can't believe how creative people are honestly. Can't wait to use this app.

tmrggns 13y ago

As I go through a store using this app, a storekeeper stops me, concerned that I'm just using his store for "showcasing". Luckily I'm able to explain to him how the app is helping me not buy many of his products. Once he learns this, he is much relieved and lets me go on my way.