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While reading about this story and looking at the Etsy website my wife made me divert to this page: http://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/108070806/felicity-leather-we

While reading about this story and looking at the Etsy website my wife made me divert to this page: http://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/108070806/felicity-leather-wedges-leather-shoes?ref=shop_home_active http://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/108070806/felicity-leather-we... The seller BaliELF has a large range of shoes available in different colours and sizes and is based in Indonesia. They has a lot of feedback from the last 12 months suggesting that they have shipped a fair number of shoes. I don't know much about shoe making but I'm jumping to the conclusion that they are a small factory 'hand making' lovely shoes. And yet the email to the OP states, 'Items Handmade by You' and wants him to document his workflow. The emails from Etsy seem quite buttheaded. I wouldn't think that a company with just 300 staff has to be so unwilling to engage with their partners.

ErrantX 13y ago
Yes, Etsy is stuffed with Asian mass production firms. So this is really weird to see. Just check out "macbook pro" covers, nearly all are mass produced & shipped from China. For example.
itsybitsycoder 13y ago
They've sold 1022 items at about 100GBP a pop over the last two years. That's less than $80k USD per year. I'm not sure how much of a factory you can afford with that in Bali, or how much profit would be left over. (They claim to be 3 people, so before any overhead, that's less than $26k per person per year.) I would suggest they are resellers but the amount of customization makes that seem very unlikely.
- acchow 13y ago
  > That's less than $80k USD per year. I'm not sure how much of a factory you can afford with that in Bali You could also sell through multiple channels (Alibaba, Amazon, eBay, Etsy, etc.) concurrently. Etsy would make up a small fraction compared to, for example, Alibaba.
  - itsybitsycoder 13y ago
    The majority of Etsy sellers I see sell primarily through Etsy; those who sell elsewhere generally only do so through their own personal sites. Etsy (or at least the mainstream corners of it) is much more "boutique" than Alibaba et al, and sellers can demand much higher prices for the same goods. That's one reason there's such a big problem with resellers: people can simply buy things off Alibaba/Amazon/eBay at regular prices, pretend they are handmade, and sell them on Etsy at a much higher markup. So that's possible, but it doesn't really jibe with my experience as an Etsy user.
    - duaneb 13y ago
      The majority of etsy sellers couldn't produce the volume to justify expanding, I think.
    - acchow 13y ago
      See wahsd's reply just next to your's :)
      - itsybitsycoder 13y ago
        Looks like they sell through Etsy, their own site, and a third boutique site that only carries their product. None of the other mass marketplaces.
  - wahsd 13y ago
    I'll just leave this here. Google Search by Image of the shoes. https://www.google.com/search?tbs=sbi:AMhZZitXdXLKEghtM4FeDbB0PnYyVqJnefmNRp04fgAvjcB6ehnC588kYkksShV8OfDqx2yyAxqGo9AKqVmk5NdWgmPKr1rlzm2tko7Pqbz1Ix4nxcWEwEcQhA1P8iXnyHcqvcHyHJTQkDwrtEw2ThpHNgKr8SeCTZQ2fSMDDuozrjb_1R_1CFdmm05Nqkv5PtW2OYr3jUEOinlv2tgnNXVCrrgm-gO89BVDbAh28tYSk8Zkzs-4fGMgpXeOSv7da87aQWB9-J2CsRXvV1f0uHH8UhpzGTiBBGY06sypv98CybsoAeA768_1Ti1DIyEmCAV7CsOURKP8XVOzVGY_1Ef2d4NyUpcTstUGEk53AV7WMKRn6q16sdFe_1HKHREQJs3npBy1YXTXw2qI6e1iOLbBiBrJgK1gHK9aM848PF8Rv3DBiDCMHMdQjtydXVB_1vftxaNiUHn4e5nNw-NSbMrHYOXNUhMm_1RDBaMRm_1znmn1GQCKs6uZKooO3G2iA3P2hDEgMeXUrjv3pgDx3yUT_1cEXZclbJOp8gjV25YxkmC052WeyTU-J76jMjo5kfYiXexE7sVBwXBp5JgnGmWcmYZXRkM3kOyV76HYU8lWkwF5mk5B73Hau6aJnpAYuOnFc42CtNiq2MvI7FKtJrC4N2gk3WEzjops3JqKjSgE_19_1SCl18hXeUZqR9lfhYpUeRXmoX3NZeo4nrX5audtN7o-HV_1aIdCV46mY2BTlRu1lp7tL_1VgUQPW_1HCb94UftP-RKshzUQgaTB00M0MwgchOvReQQoicL1yrFlbyf5fm4HdaG_1WDSITu1XwM-twaBn9Tmcqy12YlUShdKEjZoQyceazYe0ESH5MUo6ukqBFzRH-eW8bTeqCZls1wtyDzZ2CamRSq-vMN1NHBz8br&hl=en&bih=689&biw=1304 https://www.google.com/search?tbs=sbi:AMhZZitXdXLKEghtM4FeDb...
- auctiontheory 13y ago
  Per capita income in Bali is under $7700, so $26k/person/year is not too shabby. (COGS on shoes are low - the major costs in most apparel retail are marketing and distribution.) And of course, they can spread their already low fixed cost over multiple distribution channels. Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Indonesian_provinces_by_GRP_per_capita http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Indonesian_provinces_by...
RBerenguel 13y ago
Making a shoe by hand is a damn lot of work: I know because I also sell handmade shoes in Etsy (and through our personal site, of course) We make custom designs for our clients, let them choose colours and style. Not counting the time spent drawing and exchanging emails and measurements, at fastest speed a pair of shoes takes a craftsman or craftswoman 7 days, with not many stops. Some corners could be cut and do it in 5. To allow for several orders at once and allow a correct mind cleanse between shoes (no-one wants to screw up at the very end!) we take 5 weeks to shipping
- itsybitsycoder 13y ago
  So given that half their items are bags (some of which look pretty simple http://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/95544563/minimo-shopper-bag-leather-bag-tote?ref=shop_home_active http://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/95544563/minimo-shopper-bag-l...), would ~4 days per person per item sound reasonable? (They have sold 1022 items in 517 days, and have two people in their About Me listed as "makers".)
  - RBerenguel 13y ago
    Indeed. A bag like this can be done in a day or half a day: with a shoe you have glue drying time to consider, and the sewing is complex because it is curved and has to be close to the edge. In this bag everything is straight lines: cut, position, sew

ErrantX 13y ago

Yes, Etsy is stuffed with Asian mass production firms. So this is really weird to see. Just check out "macbook pro" covers, nearly all are mass produced & shipped from China. For example.

itsybitsycoder 13y ago

They've sold 1022 items at about 100GBP a pop over the last two years. That's less than $80k USD per year. I'm not sure how much of a factory you can afford with that in Bali, or how much profit would be left over. (They claim to be 3 people, so before any overhead, that's less than $26k per person per year.) I would suggest they are resellers but the amount of customization makes that seem very unlikely.

acchow 13y ago
> That's less than $80k USD per year. I'm not sure how much of a factory you can afford with that in Bali You could also sell through multiple channels (Alibaba, Amazon, eBay, Etsy, etc.) concurrently. Etsy would make up a small fraction compared to, for example, Alibaba.
- itsybitsycoder 13y ago
  The majority of Etsy sellers I see sell primarily through Etsy; those who sell elsewhere generally only do so through their own personal sites. Etsy (or at least the mainstream corners of it) is much more "boutique" than Alibaba et al, and sellers can demand much higher prices for the same goods. That's one reason there's such a big problem with resellers: people can simply buy things off Alibaba/Amazon/eBay at regular prices, pretend they are handmade, and sell them on Etsy at a much higher markup. So that's possible, but it doesn't really jibe with my experience as an Etsy user.
  - duaneb 13y ago
    The majority of etsy sellers couldn't produce the volume to justify expanding, I think.
  - acchow 13y ago
    See wahsd's reply just next to your's :)
    - itsybitsycoder 13y ago
      Looks like they sell through Etsy, their own site, and a third boutique site that only carries their product. None of the other mass marketplaces.
- wahsd 13y ago
  I'll just leave this here. Google Search by Image of the shoes. https://www.google.com/search?tbs=sbi:AMhZZitXdXLKEghtM4FeDbB0PnYyVqJnefmNRp04fgAvjcB6ehnC588kYkksShV8OfDqx2yyAxqGo9AKqVmk5NdWgmPKr1rlzm2tko7Pqbz1Ix4nxcWEwEcQhA1P8iXnyHcqvcHyHJTQkDwrtEw2ThpHNgKr8SeCTZQ2fSMDDuozrjb_1R_1CFdmm05Nqkv5PtW2OYr3jUEOinlv2tgnNXVCrrgm-gO89BVDbAh28tYSk8Zkzs-4fGMgpXeOSv7da87aQWB9-J2CsRXvV1f0uHH8UhpzGTiBBGY06sypv98CybsoAeA768_1Ti1DIyEmCAV7CsOURKP8XVOzVGY_1Ef2d4NyUpcTstUGEk53AV7WMKRn6q16sdFe_1HKHREQJs3npBy1YXTXw2qI6e1iOLbBiBrJgK1gHK9aM848PF8Rv3DBiDCMHMdQjtydXVB_1vftxaNiUHn4e5nNw-NSbMrHYOXNUhMm_1RDBaMRm_1znmn1GQCKs6uZKooO3G2iA3P2hDEgMeXUrjv3pgDx3yUT_1cEXZclbJOp8gjV25YxkmC052WeyTU-J76jMjo5kfYiXexE7sVBwXBp5JgnGmWcmYZXRkM3kOyV76HYU8lWkwF5mk5B73Hau6aJnpAYuOnFc42CtNiq2MvI7FKtJrC4N2gk3WEzjops3JqKjSgE_19_1SCl18hXeUZqR9lfhYpUeRXmoX3NZeo4nrX5audtN7o-HV_1aIdCV46mY2BTlRu1lp7tL_1VgUQPW_1HCb94UftP-RKshzUQgaTB00M0MwgchOvReQQoicL1yrFlbyf5fm4HdaG_1WDSITu1XwM-twaBn9Tmcqy12YlUShdKEjZoQyceazYe0ESH5MUo6ukqBFzRH-eW8bTeqCZls1wtyDzZ2CamRSq-vMN1NHBz8br&hl=en&bih=689&biw=1304 https://www.google.com/search?tbs=sbi:AMhZZitXdXLKEghtM4FeDb...
auctiontheory 13y ago
Per capita income in Bali is under $7700, so $26k/person/year is not too shabby. (COGS on shoes are low - the major costs in most apparel retail are marketing and distribution.) And of course, they can spread their already low fixed cost over multiple distribution channels. Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Indonesian_provinces_by_GRP_per_capita http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Indonesian_provinces_by...

RBerenguel 13y ago

Making a shoe by hand is a damn lot of work: I know because I also sell handmade shoes in Etsy (and through our personal site, of course) We make custom designs for our clients, let them choose colours and style. Not counting the time spent drawing and exchanging emails and measurements, at fastest speed a pair of shoes takes a craftsman or craftswoman 7 days, with not many stops. Some corners could be cut and do it in 5. To allow for several orders at once and allow a correct mind cleanse between shoes (no-one wants to screw up at the very end!) we take 5 weeks to shipping

itsybitsycoder 13y ago
So given that half their items are bags (some of which look pretty simple http://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/95544563/minimo-shopper-bag-leather-bag-tote?ref=shop_home_active http://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/95544563/minimo-shopper-bag-l...), would ~4 days per person per item sound reasonable? (They have sold 1022 items in 517 days, and have two people in their About Me listed as "makers".)
- RBerenguel 13y ago
  Indeed. A bag like this can be done in a day or half a day: with a shoe you have glue drying time to consider, and the sewing is complex because it is curved and has to be close to the edge. In this bag everything is straight lines: cut, position, sew