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I fail to see how the fertility rates of the country I live in have anything at all to do with the validity of my opinion as stated. I think "welfare state" is

I fail to see how the fertility rates of the country I live in have anything at all to do with the validity of my opinion as stated. I think "welfare state" is a pretty loaded term, and I think America's economic troubles have almost nothing to do with health care. (Canada, for the record, has had public health care for a long time and our economic troubles are also completely unrelated.)

hga 13y ago
The Panglossian opinions of a man born and raised in a doomed, dying society in the areas that are dooming it ... surely I don't have to further develop the case? I actually wasn't necessarily including health care in "welfare state", old age pensions AKA Social Security here are the traditional start (it was Bismarck who set the age at 65, BTW), but of course health care is a big one that gets added later, e.g. for 65 and up in the US in the early-mid '60s. And those supports are a critical part of all this, they tend to destroy the old model, sundering family bonds. The young can say, with complete truth, they're already paying very heavily to support the old, starting when they can least afford it, the parents can say, with much less truth in the long term if the history of government promises are any guide, that the government will take care of them (and in a greater sense, including their money being worth something when they retire). I also wasn't making a general case about our economic troubles and health care, just pointing out one existential place where the latter are contributing to what well might be the end of US society.
- napoleond 13y ago
  It's a pretty word, but I'm not sure "Panglossian" correctly describes the viewpoints I expressed, or maybe I was just unclear. I don't think society at large is "the best", nor do I think that way about my piece of it. (It is probably also incorrect to use country of origin as an abstraction for "society I was born and raised in", but I digress.) Anyway, the point is that we seem to disagree on who should pay for health care when, and how. That's okay :) Thanks for politely and intelligently sharing your thoughts with me.
  - hga 13y ago
    You're welcome, and, yep, I used Panglossian more because it was pretty than accurate, it obviously overstates the case.

hga 13y ago

The Panglossian opinions of a man born and raised in a doomed, dying society in the areas that are dooming it ... surely I don't have to further develop the case? I actually wasn't necessarily including health care in "welfare state", old age pensions AKA Social Security here are the traditional start (it was Bismarck who set the age at 65, BTW), but of course health care is a big one that gets added later, e.g. for 65 and up in the US in the early-mid '60s. And those supports are a critical part of all this, they tend to destroy the old model, sundering family bonds. The young can say, with complete truth, they're already paying very heavily to support the old, starting when they can least afford it, the parents can say, with much less truth in the long term if the history of government promises are any guide, that the government will take care of them (and in a greater sense, including their money being worth something when they retire). I also wasn't making a general case about our economic troubles and health care, just pointing out one existential place where the latter are contributing to what well might be the end of US society.

napoleond 13y ago
It's a pretty word, but I'm not sure "Panglossian" correctly describes the viewpoints I expressed, or maybe I was just unclear. I don't think society at large is "the best", nor do I think that way about my piece of it. (It is probably also incorrect to use country of origin as an abstraction for "society I was born and raised in", but I digress.) Anyway, the point is that we seem to disagree on who should pay for health care when, and how. That's okay :) Thanks for politely and intelligently sharing your thoughts with me.
- hga 13y ago
  You're welcome, and, yep, I used Panglossian more because it was pretty than accurate, it obviously overstates the case.