4 ms·

Underbelly: What haughty startup bloggers don't tell you

64 points by lrm242 18y ago

lsc 18y ago
on confidence: it's more than a front, it is real, but it very dangerous and must be controlled. If you are not wildly optimistic, you probably won't start your own company. However, if you don't learn to control that wild, I-can-do-anything, to temper it with self-doubt, you will fail quickly and spectacularly. Even socially, confidence is very good in some situations, bad in others. I find that it is best to project a confidence level that is inversely proportional to the technical skill of your audience.
mdasen 18y ago
For someone who linked to the 37signals book, Getting Real, he doesn't seem to have read it. From Getting Real (http://gettingreal.37signals.com/ch01_Caveats_disclaimers_and_other_preemptive_strikes.php http://gettingreal.37signals.com/ch01_Caveats_disclaimers_an...): "You take too much of a black and white view." If our tone seems too know-it-allish, bear with us. We think it's better to present ideas in bold strokes than to be wishy-washy about it. If that comes off as cocky or arrogant, so be it. We'd rather be provocative than water everything down with "it depends..." Of course there will be times when these rules need to be stretched or broken. And some of these tactics may not apply to your situation. Use your judgement and imagination. And that's how I read all those things. Sure, they could preface everything and when I write I am much more wishy-washy, but I understand why they've chosen that route too. It's important to realize that no one is as confident as they put on to others and once you realize that, you don't get as worried about how you fit in (at least I don't).
- ryanwaggoner 18y ago
  It's important to realize that no one is as confident as they put on to others and once you realize that, you don't get as worried about how you fit in (at least I don't). I think that's why he wrote the post: to explain this to people who don't yet realize it.
  - cmos 18y ago
    That's part of why... I think he also wants to let people know there is a lot to running a small company that people don't write publicly about. And the ones that survived their early days and have profit + momentum often write about high level things that don't _really_ matter when you don't have enough money for tomorrow's payroll.
    - smartbear 18y ago
      Correct, that's why I wrote it! I love 37signals of course. They shouldn't change. But I'd also like to tell new startup owners that their feelings are normal, even though they aren't reflected at places like 37signals' public persona.
- kubrick 18y ago
  I'm gonna get dinged for this, and I don't care. Admitting that you like sounding arrogant doesn't make it OK. Just a little more honest.
  - jerf 18y ago
    I used to write with lots of caveats and such. I had to stop. Was it because it was hard to read? No. It was because it didn't matter. It doesn't matter how much you water your prose down with caveats and exceptions and criteria and clauses, it turns out that there's still a percentage of people who won't read them and still flame you. It doesn't matter how humble a tone you strike, some people think you're being arrogant simply because you have an opinion. It's really not worth gumming up prose with exceptions, because English doesn't have the requisite level of precision anyhow. Of course, I don't follow this principle 100% either, but I've stopped stroking out about it. Better to say something clearly and be misunderstood than say something muddled and still be misunderstood.
    - kubrick 18y ago
      I agree: caveats can be distracting. I'm not at all suggesting that, for instance, the 37 Signals boys start adding cavaets. I'm suggesting that they stop constantly posting articles that say, in essence, "Hey, world, you're doing it all wrong and we know how to do it right and you should take your cue from us. There's only one Right Way and we have a lock on it." You know, like when they cap on startups because "building a business" is The Better Way. As opposed to a different pursuit altogether.
      - smartbear 18y ago
        I don't want them to use caveats either. I don't either in my own writing! Rather, I want to step back every so often and show others that real life isn't like this. That it's ok to be scared and unsure. That this is a WRITING DEVICE and not reality.
  - swombat 18y ago
    Sounding arrogant does not equate being arrogant.
- smartbear 18y ago
  Actually I did specifically say that! If you re-read my post (or read through the comments) you'll see that I specifically agree that you SHOULD be direct and not be cagey. I do the same thing. However, it's ALSO true that if you NEVER talk about the process of making decisions, then you're only telling half the story. I'm not saying people should write differently. Even I won't, generally. I'm saying that it's ALSO useful to take time sometimes to talk about what life is really like so people don't get the wrong impression.

64 points by lrm242 18y ago

lsc 18y ago

on confidence: it's more than a front, it is real, but it very dangerous and must be controlled. If you are not wildly optimistic, you probably won't start your own company. However, if you don't learn to control that wild, I-can-do-anything, to temper it with self-doubt, you will fail quickly and spectacularly. Even socially, confidence is very good in some situations, bad in others. I find that it is best to project a confidence level that is inversely proportional to the technical skill of your audience.

mdasen 18y ago

For someone who linked to the 37signals book, Getting Real, he doesn't seem to have read it. From Getting Real (http://gettingreal.37signals.com/ch01_Caveats_disclaimers_and_other_preemptive_strikes.php http://gettingreal.37signals.com/ch01_Caveats_disclaimers_an...): "You take too much of a black and white view." If our tone seems too know-it-allish, bear with us. We think it's better to present ideas in bold strokes than to be wishy-washy about it. If that comes off as cocky or arrogant, so be it. We'd rather be provocative than water everything down with "it depends..." Of course there will be times when these rules need to be stretched or broken. And some of these tactics may not apply to your situation. Use your judgement and imagination. And that's how I read all those things. Sure, they could preface everything and when I write I am much more wishy-washy, but I understand why they've chosen that route too. It's important to realize that no one is as confident as they put on to others and once you realize that, you don't get as worried about how you fit in (at least I don't).

ryanwaggoner 18y ago
It's important to realize that no one is as confident as they put on to others and once you realize that, you don't get as worried about how you fit in (at least I don't). I think that's why he wrote the post: to explain this to people who don't yet realize it.
- cmos 18y ago
  That's part of why... I think he also wants to let people know there is a lot to running a small company that people don't write publicly about. And the ones that survived their early days and have profit + momentum often write about high level things that don't _really_ matter when you don't have enough money for tomorrow's payroll.
  - smartbear 18y ago
    Correct, that's why I wrote it! I love 37signals of course. They shouldn't change. But I'd also like to tell new startup owners that their feelings are normal, even though they aren't reflected at places like 37signals' public persona.
kubrick 18y ago
I'm gonna get dinged for this, and I don't care. Admitting that you like sounding arrogant doesn't make it OK. Just a little more honest.
- jerf 18y ago
  I used to write with lots of caveats and such. I had to stop. Was it because it was hard to read? No. It was because it didn't matter. It doesn't matter how much you water your prose down with caveats and exceptions and criteria and clauses, it turns out that there's still a percentage of people who won't read them and still flame you. It doesn't matter how humble a tone you strike, some people think you're being arrogant simply because you have an opinion. It's really not worth gumming up prose with exceptions, because English doesn't have the requisite level of precision anyhow. Of course, I don't follow this principle 100% either, but I've stopped stroking out about it. Better to say something clearly and be misunderstood than say something muddled and still be misunderstood.
  - kubrick 18y ago
    I agree: caveats can be distracting. I'm not at all suggesting that, for instance, the 37 Signals boys start adding cavaets. I'm suggesting that they stop constantly posting articles that say, in essence, "Hey, world, you're doing it all wrong and we know how to do it right and you should take your cue from us. There's only one Right Way and we have a lock on it." You know, like when they cap on startups because "building a business" is The Better Way. As opposed to a different pursuit altogether.
    - smartbear 18y ago
      I don't want them to use caveats either. I don't either in my own writing! Rather, I want to step back every so often and show others that real life isn't like this. That it's ok to be scared and unsure. That this is a WRITING DEVICE and not reality.
- swombat 18y ago
  Sounding arrogant does not equate being arrogant.
smartbear 18y ago
Actually I did specifically say that! If you re-read my post (or read through the comments) you'll see that I specifically agree that you SHOULD be direct and not be cagey. I do the same thing. However, it's ALSO true that if you NEVER talk about the process of making decisions, then you're only telling half the story. I'm not saying people should write differently. Even I won't, generally. I'm saying that it's ALSO useful to take time sometimes to talk about what life is really like so people don't get the wrong impression.