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They had no understanding of individual computer users writing their own programs Individual computer users creating their own programs is a very specific grou

by wes-exp 13y ago

They had no understanding of individual computer users writing their own programs Individual computer users creating their own programs is a very specific group of people. Consider for a moment that devices aren't really made for nerd programmers. They are made for average people. As a technology nerd, of course I want the freedom to modify and develop stuff, without restrictions, on my devices. As a family member though, I'm not convinced that my non-technical parents, grandparents, siblings and so on really need root-level access to their hardware. Software can easily get screwed up. For the same reason, IT departments frequently take away admin rights from employees. This is rarely tyrannical, but just meant to keep things running smoothly without having to reinstall the OS every six weeks. Already we are seeing with the Android "freedom" model a lot more malware than the "closed" Apple model. Sure, there is a trade-off there of ceding some device control to Apple, but at the end of the day, the benefits are quite significant. So at least for me, I am willing to give up some control, if it means that I don't have to be plagued by technical support calls from my non-technical family members.

betterunix 13y ago
"As a technology nerd, of course I want the freedom to modify and develop stuff, without restrictions, on my devices." My point was that our representatives did not have a concept of anyone doing that unless it was part of their job (with a corporation). The idea of some kid hacking out the next big thing in their dorm room was (and likely remains) foreign to most of our politicians. "So at least for me, I am willing to give up some control, if it means that I don't have to be plagued by technical support calls from my non-technical family members." Except that you'll still be plagued by your less-technically-literate friends and family members. A few months ago, my mother called to ask me how she could copy a movie from a DVD to her new, locked-down tablet. I also received calls for help when she got a new cable TV receiver that would not work with her 720p TV because of HDCP. Such is the reality of the world of built-in restrictions and computers that are designed to fight their users.
- wes-exp 13y ago
  I also received calls for help when she got a new cable TV receiver that would not work with her 720p TV because of HDCP This is lamentable, for sure. But, at least products exist, ready to go and on the shelf, that would work and are interoperable. Consider for a moment in a world of maximum freedom (without "Intellectual Property" at all), no one could really profit making this kind of stuff, and it wouldn't exist at all. What would be left? DIY? So instead the moms of the world should buy all the parts for an HTPC, assemble it, and then read up in the MythTV wiki how to make it all work? Is that really a better future?
  - betterunix 13y ago
    "Consider for a moment in a world of maximum freedom (without "Intellectual Property" at all), no one could really profit making this kind of stuff, and it wouldn't exist at all. What would be left? DIY?" Standards are a separate issue. We manage to have standards for things like screws, nuts, bolts, and even connector head shapes for electronics. Electronics manufacturers made plenty of money in a world of analog standards; they make plenty in a world of digital standards too, and would continue to make plenty of money in the absence of HDCP. Electronics manufacturers and entertainment companies became some of the most powerful corporations in the country before the DMCA was passed.
AlexandrB 13y ago
> As a family member though, I'm not convinced that my non-technical parents, grandparents, siblings and so on really need root-level access to their hardware. This is completely orthogonal to the issue. Opposing the DMCA does not preclude device manufacturers from implementing access restriction technologies. For most people the Apple App Store could function basically the same with or without the DMCA. The crux of the issue is whether circumventing these technologies should be illegal. I don't think it should be.
- wes-exp 13y ago
  For most people the Apple App Store could function basically the same with or without the DMCA You don't think the Apple App Store has more and better software available due to reduced copyright infringement on that platform?
  - betterunix 13y ago
    Is there some reason to think that is the case?
    - wes-exp 13y ago
      Mobile app developers, in general, seem to prefer to target iOS before Android, in spite of iOS being "closed". I think the main reason for this is pretty simple: money, and it is pretty clear that iOS pays out more on the whole. Hard to say with scientific certainty to what extent reduced infringement plays a role in this. But for the same reason that game studios might treat the "open" PC platform (with 90%+ infringement) as a last resort and instead focus on "closed" consoles, I think reduced infringement may be a significant factor.

by wes-exp 13y ago

betterunix 13y ago

"As a technology nerd, of course I want the freedom to modify and develop stuff, without restrictions, on my devices." My point was that our representatives did not have a concept of anyone doing that unless it was part of their job (with a corporation). The idea of some kid hacking out the next big thing in their dorm room was (and likely remains) foreign to most of our politicians. "So at least for me, I am willing to give up some control, if it means that I don't have to be plagued by technical support calls from my non-technical family members." Except that you'll still be plagued by your less-technically-literate friends and family members. A few months ago, my mother called to ask me how she could copy a movie from a DVD to her new, locked-down tablet. I also received calls for help when she got a new cable TV receiver that would not work with her 720p TV because of HDCP. Such is the reality of the world of built-in restrictions and computers that are designed to fight their users.

wes-exp 13y ago
I also received calls for help when she got a new cable TV receiver that would not work with her 720p TV because of HDCP This is lamentable, for sure. But, at least products exist, ready to go and on the shelf, that would work and are interoperable. Consider for a moment in a world of maximum freedom (without "Intellectual Property" at all), no one could really profit making this kind of stuff, and it wouldn't exist at all. What would be left? DIY? So instead the moms of the world should buy all the parts for an HTPC, assemble it, and then read up in the MythTV wiki how to make it all work? Is that really a better future?
- betterunix 13y ago
  "Consider for a moment in a world of maximum freedom (without "Intellectual Property" at all), no one could really profit making this kind of stuff, and it wouldn't exist at all. What would be left? DIY?" Standards are a separate issue. We manage to have standards for things like screws, nuts, bolts, and even connector head shapes for electronics. Electronics manufacturers made plenty of money in a world of analog standards; they make plenty in a world of digital standards too, and would continue to make plenty of money in the absence of HDCP. Electronics manufacturers and entertainment companies became some of the most powerful corporations in the country before the DMCA was passed.

AlexandrB 13y ago

> As a family member though, I'm not convinced that my non-technical parents, grandparents, siblings and so on really need root-level access to their hardware. This is completely orthogonal to the issue. Opposing the DMCA does not preclude device manufacturers from implementing access restriction technologies. For most people the Apple App Store could function basically the same with or without the DMCA. The crux of the issue is whether circumventing these technologies should be illegal. I don't think it should be.

wes-exp 13y ago
For most people the Apple App Store could function basically the same with or without the DMCA You don't think the Apple App Store has more and better software available due to reduced copyright infringement on that platform?
- betterunix 13y ago
  Is there some reason to think that is the case?
  - wes-exp 13y ago
    Mobile app developers, in general, seem to prefer to target iOS before Android, in spite of iOS being "closed". I think the main reason for this is pretty simple: money, and it is pretty clear that iOS pays out more on the whole. Hard to say with scientific certainty to what extent reduced infringement plays a role in this. But for the same reason that game studios might treat the "open" PC platform (with 90%+ infringement) as a last resort and instead focus on "closed" consoles, I think reduced infringement may be a significant factor.