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> In the real world, people have been using relational databases to solve problems for years. They work, they're understood, they scale. And they're a pain the

> In the real world, people have been using relational databases to solve problems for years. They work, they're understood, they scale. And they're a pain the ass and don't mix well with the kinds of programs many want to write. Mongo clearly fills a niche that relational databases don't serve well; if it didn't, no one would use it.

andrix 14y ago
I think it's not a fight. RDBMS has been there for many years and they have proved to work in many areas. NoSQL databases born for new needs people was asking to have in their new projects. Both would probably works perfect for many cases, but nosql databases are very suitable for scenarios when you do not require an strict schema, and also they are simple to setup. I still think MongoDB is great for many applications as many companies are using it for their data needs (like Foresquare), and the same with RDBMS like MySQL, that lot of big fishes use them for different parts of their architecture (facebook, twitter, etc). In the end, each option has pros/cons, but one will be better for your use case.
papsosouid 14y ago
Could you actually go into some detail about these mythical problems with actual databases? Faux database apologists seem to really love claiming databases are so unusable, but I've never gotten an actual explanation as to what problems they are having. As both a developer and a sysadmin, postgresql is much less of a pain in the ass than mongodb. And I have no idea what "don't mix well with the kinds of programs.." is supposed to mean. The idea that "it must be good for something or people wouldn't use it" is absurd. People do the wrong thing all the time. People make technical decisions based on fads constantly. Mongodb is one of the prime examples of fad driven development choices, where people choose it because "it is web scale" while having no idea what they are even supposed to be comparing it to.
- gnaritas 14y ago
  > Faux database apologists seem to really love claiming databases are so unusable You really think tossing out insults like that is a way to have a reasoned conversation? I think not, come back when you can converse like an adult. > And I have no idea what "don't mix well with the kinds of programs.." is supposed to mean. Then you need more experience as a programmer perhaps. I'm a programer and a SQL guy, and I'm fully aware of what a pain SQL can be in an application and if you don't see the ease of programming things like NoSQL databases or Mongo bring to programming, you aren't paying attention or you're lying to yourself about how well SQL fits with code.
  - papsosouid 14y ago
    You made baseless assertions, and provided nothing to back them up. Your comment got precisely the response it deserves. Acting indignant does not support your assertions. The fact that you have some unspecified problem does not mean anyone else who does not have that problem is inexperienced. Given the complete lack of information available, it is just as reasonable to conclude that you are in fact lacking in experience which allows others to solve the problem you continue to refuse to define.
    - Zenst 14y ago
      +1 though your both right depending on the applicatiton and with that you will go from your experience and both be right without specifying in detail an example and neither of you want to go down to doing specs on a forum to win a argument that you both will win and end up arguing about the applicaiton and specs. I say payroll databases at dawn, 50 paces each, turn and shoot. Go :-)
    - gnaritas 14y ago
      And which assertion was that; the one that Mongo fits a niche which it obviously does, or the one that many people find relational databases a pain, which they obviously do. Neither of those require me to provide evidence, they are self evident facts to anyone with even moderate experience in the field. I don't have an unspecified problem, not once did I even mention a problem, so take your childish argumentative b.s. somewhere else.
      - papsosouid 14y ago
        >And which assertion was that Both of them. You only wrote two sentences, it shouldn't be hard to find them. >the one that many people find You didn't say anything about "many people find". You said they are a pain in the ass, and don't mix well with the applications many people are writing. Those are both assertions, and you supported neither of them. Even after replying twice, you still haven't even given a hint as to what you might be referring to. That really makes it seem like you are just saying things out of ignorance.
- threeseed 14y ago
  So the guys at Foursquare are driven by "fads" and don't have a clue about databases or scaling ?
  - papsosouid 14y ago
    You are reading something I didn't write.
- Luyt 14y ago
  people choose it because "it is web scale" while having no idea what they are even supposed to be comparing it to Some compare it to relational databases... http://www.mongodb-is-web-scale.com/ http://www.mongodb-is-web-scale.com/

andrix 14y ago

I think it's not a fight. RDBMS has been there for many years and they have proved to work in many areas. NoSQL databases born for new needs people was asking to have in their new projects. Both would probably works perfect for many cases, but nosql databases are very suitable for scenarios when you do not require an strict schema, and also they are simple to setup. I still think MongoDB is great for many applications as many companies are using it for their data needs (like Foresquare), and the same with RDBMS like MySQL, that lot of big fishes use them for different parts of their architecture (facebook, twitter, etc). In the end, each option has pros/cons, but one will be better for your use case.

papsosouid 14y ago

Could you actually go into some detail about these mythical problems with actual databases? Faux database apologists seem to really love claiming databases are so unusable, but I've never gotten an actual explanation as to what problems they are having. As both a developer and a sysadmin, postgresql is much less of a pain in the ass than mongodb. And I have no idea what "don't mix well with the kinds of programs.." is supposed to mean. The idea that "it must be good for something or people wouldn't use it" is absurd. People do the wrong thing all the time. People make technical decisions based on fads constantly. Mongodb is one of the prime examples of fad driven development choices, where people choose it because "it is web scale" while having no idea what they are even supposed to be comparing it to.

gnaritas 14y ago
> Faux database apologists seem to really love claiming databases are so unusable You really think tossing out insults like that is a way to have a reasoned conversation? I think not, come back when you can converse like an adult. > And I have no idea what "don't mix well with the kinds of programs.." is supposed to mean. Then you need more experience as a programmer perhaps. I'm a programer and a SQL guy, and I'm fully aware of what a pain SQL can be in an application and if you don't see the ease of programming things like NoSQL databases or Mongo bring to programming, you aren't paying attention or you're lying to yourself about how well SQL fits with code.
- papsosouid 14y ago
  You made baseless assertions, and provided nothing to back them up. Your comment got precisely the response it deserves. Acting indignant does not support your assertions. The fact that you have some unspecified problem does not mean anyone else who does not have that problem is inexperienced. Given the complete lack of information available, it is just as reasonable to conclude that you are in fact lacking in experience which allows others to solve the problem you continue to refuse to define.
  - Zenst 14y ago
    +1 though your both right depending on the applicatiton and with that you will go from your experience and both be right without specifying in detail an example and neither of you want to go down to doing specs on a forum to win a argument that you both will win and end up arguing about the applicaiton and specs. I say payroll databases at dawn, 50 paces each, turn and shoot. Go :-)
  - gnaritas 14y ago
    And which assertion was that; the one that Mongo fits a niche which it obviously does, or the one that many people find relational databases a pain, which they obviously do. Neither of those require me to provide evidence, they are self evident facts to anyone with even moderate experience in the field. I don't have an unspecified problem, not once did I even mention a problem, so take your childish argumentative b.s. somewhere else.
    - papsosouid 14y ago
      >And which assertion was that Both of them. You only wrote two sentences, it shouldn't be hard to find them. >the one that many people find You didn't say anything about "many people find". You said they are a pain in the ass, and don't mix well with the applications many people are writing. Those are both assertions, and you supported neither of them. Even after replying twice, you still haven't even given a hint as to what you might be referring to. That really makes it seem like you are just saying things out of ignorance.
threeseed 14y ago
So the guys at Foursquare are driven by "fads" and don't have a clue about databases or scaling ?
- papsosouid 14y ago
  You are reading something I didn't write.
Luyt 14y ago
people choose it because "it is web scale" while having no idea what they are even supposed to be comparing it to Some compare it to relational databases... http://www.mongodb-is-web-scale.com/ http://www.mongodb-is-web-scale.com/