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Personally, while the whole starting a business idea seems pretty cool to me, it's just far too grand, far too difficult and far too expensive right now! I'm 2

Personally, while the whole starting a business idea seems pretty cool to me, it's just far too grand, far too difficult and far too expensive right now! I'm 20, I want to go to my simple 9 to 5 job, tackle a really difficult challenge, maybe debug some Magento because that's where the real challenge is at my company, then maybe for the last couple of hours I'll work on some of our in house products to enjoy the freedom of custom development. Then I'll go home, make something to eat (at a reasonable hour) and hopefully spend a great night cuddling with my girlfriend while we watch old movies on my laptop. While being a billionaire business man is very enticing, right now, at this point in my life, all I want is to be happy, and working 80 hour weeks to risk it on a 3% chance to make it something amazing just isn't worth it for it.

obviouslygreen 13y ago
Debugging Magento is a real challenge because Magento is horrible, horrible, horrible, horrible, horrible. It's horrible. I like your outlook, but man, even in PHP land there are vastly better frameworks that won't make you hate your life (Magento has a nasty track record for me and several other devs I worked with). ExpressionEngine, CodeIgniter, even Symfony... if you want to do PHP, do yourself a favor and do something that's not Magento.
- shanelja 13y ago
  Unfortunately, my company took over a Magento project the last developers majorly screwed up on - we didn't know anything about Zend or Magento until we jumped in to it. I do agree though, Magento is a minefield - but that's part of the fun. That being said, I am a big fan of CodeIgniter, I love the simplicity of it's MVC system and I wish I did more work with it.
- ciclista 13y ago
  I haven't done an ecommerce project in quite a while, what would you suggest instead of Magento? I had the dubious honor of setting up a heavily customized Magento site barely after they released 1.0 - it was a nightmare. No docs, barely any participation in the forums, blog posts with outdated (already) information... I didn't have a say in picking Magento and eventually the client moved to something else as updates and expansion became too much of a hassle.
  - shanelja 13y ago
    I hear good things about Woocommerce [1] these days if you're using Wordpress for your main site. It's no where near in the realm of Magento, but fine if you're looking for something simpler but less powerful. [1] http://www.woothemes.com/woocommerce/ http://www.woothemes.com/woocommerce/
  - konradb 13y ago
    I'd also be very interested in this. I'm looking for an ecommerce package that does faceted search, supports catering for non US regions, and doesn't require the effort Magento requires to reskin. Something where the goods-in process is easy, no EPOS integration required. Anybody got any good recent experiences?
  - r0s 13y ago
    If you already know Drupal, Commerce is awesome.
  - corny 13y ago
    I've used Lemonstand for a few projects and really enjoy working with it. There are a few features it's lacking still (no gift certificates, no faceted search) but it's a very flexible system. (http://lemonstand.com/ http://lemonstand.com/)
  - davidandgoliath 13y ago
    For a developer? Hm, foxy cart, or spree (open source): http://spreecommerce.com/ http://spreecommerce.com/
- ownagefool 13y ago
  Why do you say "even Symfony"? The buzz I hear is that Symfony is pretty much the most forward thinking framework in PHP and that it's offspring such as Laravel take cake if you're looking for something a bit more streamlined. Just looking at job boards tells me those tech + drupal seems to be where all the work is (in the UK at least), so yeah, why the "even"?
- kapv89 13y ago
  Well, its 2013, you can't talk about php frameworks and leave out laravel. And I think you should've also mentioned the cool set of packages available on composer.
untog 13y ago
The one counter-argument I'd give to that is that you'll never have more time or freedom than you do right now. If you're interested in starting a business, don't feel any rush to do it immediately, but your twenties are a great time to try it. But don't get trapped working for a startup and kidding yourself that their success is your success. If it isn't your company you probably don't own a meaningful amount of stock- it's never worth busting your gut over.
- shanelja 13y ago
  In a way, my company is a start up, I was employee 9, there are now eleven, the company is only a year or so old (and I've been here for 7 months now.) But they showed faith in me when I really needed a job, they hired me on the day of the interview and even paid me early when I was about to be homeless (again.) I love the culture at my company, I love table tennis at lunch and Bacon Fridays, I enjoy my work and the people I'm with. Regardless of where I want to be in 5 years, why would I give all that up for a minor chance at being rich?
  - ersii 13y ago
    You're twenty. Your twenties will continue for about nine years. It's a good question. Why would you? Maybe it's just because it's a vast challenge. There's plenty of time though, don't worry. Sometimes, people grow apart from the environment they're in - for what I've seen and thought, that's probably when we're open for a larger challenge and with that, some new risk/opportunities.
- Tyrannosaurs 13y ago
  This was my immediate reaction. The minute you have kids your discretionary free time drops massively (in many cases to zero for a while, especially if both parents work). Plus your view of your finances change - you have other little people depending on you so that steady income from that steady job looks really appealing. If you're not someone who wants to set up on their own, that's great. Personally I have other priorities too (damn pesty kids...), but I'd say if you don't think you want to do it in your early / mid 20s when you have energy and time, you probably need to accept you actually don't want to do it at all.
orangethirty 13y ago
You gotta start failing and learning early on. A business does not have to be huge, just sell something. Whatever.
whitej125 13y ago
Time is on your side. Keep learning about technology, keep learning about yourself. In this learning process you are going to make mistakes. Make them on someone else's dime. I personally have always been an entrepreneur at heart. It wasn't until a month ago (at the age of 33, married with one kid) that I decided to strike it out on my own. Ultimately, I knew I would regret not doing it. I have built up plenty of experience both technically and leadership wise. I've made a ton of mistakes in the past 11 years, but most importantly have lived with and learned from them. You've got time, just keep learning.
isalmon 13y ago
It's totally cool if you're happy doing what you do. For some people "to be happy" means NOT to got to their simple 9 to 5 job.
deepGem 13y ago
It's quite possible to run a meaningful startup doing 9-5 hours, without burning yourself doing 80 hour work weeks. Sure, it won't be a billion or a million $ company but it'll be a successful business.
- JoeAltmaier 13y ago
  Even Nostradamus can't predict which startups will succeed and by how much. Yet you can, simply by adding up the hours worked? That's pretty simplistic.

obviouslygreen 13y ago

Debugging Magento is a real challenge because Magento is horrible, horrible, horrible, horrible, horrible. It's horrible. I like your outlook, but man, even in PHP land there are vastly better frameworks that won't make you hate your life (Magento has a nasty track record for me and several other devs I worked with). ExpressionEngine, CodeIgniter, even Symfony... if you want to do PHP, do yourself a favor and do something that's not Magento.

shanelja 13y ago
Unfortunately, my company took over a Magento project the last developers majorly screwed up on - we didn't know anything about Zend or Magento until we jumped in to it. I do agree though, Magento is a minefield - but that's part of the fun. That being said, I am a big fan of CodeIgniter, I love the simplicity of it's MVC system and I wish I did more work with it.
ciclista 13y ago
I haven't done an ecommerce project in quite a while, what would you suggest instead of Magento? I had the dubious honor of setting up a heavily customized Magento site barely after they released 1.0 - it was a nightmare. No docs, barely any participation in the forums, blog posts with outdated (already) information... I didn't have a say in picking Magento and eventually the client moved to something else as updates and expansion became too much of a hassle.
- shanelja 13y ago
  I hear good things about Woocommerce [1] these days if you're using Wordpress for your main site. It's no where near in the realm of Magento, but fine if you're looking for something simpler but less powerful. [1] http://www.woothemes.com/woocommerce/ http://www.woothemes.com/woocommerce/
- konradb 13y ago
  I'd also be very interested in this. I'm looking for an ecommerce package that does faceted search, supports catering for non US regions, and doesn't require the effort Magento requires to reskin. Something where the goods-in process is easy, no EPOS integration required. Anybody got any good recent experiences?
- r0s 13y ago
  If you already know Drupal, Commerce is awesome.
- corny 13y ago
  I've used Lemonstand for a few projects and really enjoy working with it. There are a few features it's lacking still (no gift certificates, no faceted search) but it's a very flexible system. (http://lemonstand.com/ http://lemonstand.com/)
- davidandgoliath 13y ago
  For a developer? Hm, foxy cart, or spree (open source): http://spreecommerce.com/ http://spreecommerce.com/
ownagefool 13y ago
Why do you say "even Symfony"? The buzz I hear is that Symfony is pretty much the most forward thinking framework in PHP and that it's offspring such as Laravel take cake if you're looking for something a bit more streamlined. Just looking at job boards tells me those tech + drupal seems to be where all the work is (in the UK at least), so yeah, why the "even"?
kapv89 13y ago
Well, its 2013, you can't talk about php frameworks and leave out laravel. And I think you should've also mentioned the cool set of packages available on composer.

untog 13y ago

The one counter-argument I'd give to that is that you'll never have more time or freedom than you do right now. If you're interested in starting a business, don't feel any rush to do it immediately, but your twenties are a great time to try it. But don't get trapped working for a startup and kidding yourself that their success is your success. If it isn't your company you probably don't own a meaningful amount of stock- it's never worth busting your gut over.

shanelja 13y ago
In a way, my company is a start up, I was employee 9, there are now eleven, the company is only a year or so old (and I've been here for 7 months now.) But they showed faith in me when I really needed a job, they hired me on the day of the interview and even paid me early when I was about to be homeless (again.) I love the culture at my company, I love table tennis at lunch and Bacon Fridays, I enjoy my work and the people I'm with. Regardless of where I want to be in 5 years, why would I give all that up for a minor chance at being rich?
- ersii 13y ago
  You're twenty. Your twenties will continue for about nine years. It's a good question. Why would you? Maybe it's just because it's a vast challenge. There's plenty of time though, don't worry. Sometimes, people grow apart from the environment they're in - for what I've seen and thought, that's probably when we're open for a larger challenge and with that, some new risk/opportunities.
Tyrannosaurs 13y ago
This was my immediate reaction. The minute you have kids your discretionary free time drops massively (in many cases to zero for a while, especially if both parents work). Plus your view of your finances change - you have other little people depending on you so that steady income from that steady job looks really appealing. If you're not someone who wants to set up on their own, that's great. Personally I have other priorities too (damn pesty kids...), but I'd say if you don't think you want to do it in your early / mid 20s when you have energy and time, you probably need to accept you actually don't want to do it at all.

orangethirty 13y ago

You gotta start failing and learning early on. A business does not have to be huge, just sell something. Whatever.

whitej125 13y ago

Time is on your side. Keep learning about technology, keep learning about yourself. In this learning process you are going to make mistakes. Make them on someone else's dime. I personally have always been an entrepreneur at heart. It wasn't until a month ago (at the age of 33, married with one kid) that I decided to strike it out on my own. Ultimately, I knew I would regret not doing it. I have built up plenty of experience both technically and leadership wise. I've made a ton of mistakes in the past 11 years, but most importantly have lived with and learned from them. You've got time, just keep learning.

isalmon 13y ago

It's totally cool if you're happy doing what you do. For some people "to be happy" means NOT to got to their simple 9 to 5 job.

deepGem 13y ago

It's quite possible to run a meaningful startup doing 9-5 hours, without burning yourself doing 80 hour work weeks. Sure, it won't be a billion or a million $ company but it'll be a successful business.

JoeAltmaier 13y ago
Even Nostradamus can't predict which startups will succeed and by how much. Yet you can, simply by adding up the hours worked? That's pretty simplistic.