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I don't disagree with you that the U.S. is a very complex system with millions of variables, and like any complex bureaucratic system is extremely difficult to

I don't disagree with you that the U.S. is a very complex system with millions of variables, and like any complex bureaucratic system is extremely difficult to change. I also don't disagree that there almost certainly isn't an evil council scheming to make corporations more powerful (I'm not a fan of conspiracy theories, and this particular conspiracy sounds especially absurd -- I'm not even sure that the corporations are getting more powerful in the first place). However, while "it's complex" is the right answer, it's almost certainly never a good answer. I run a company with a team of eleven, and "it's complex" often comes up as an answer to difficult challenges. Well, it is complex and it isn't. Difficult issues are difficult by definition, but doing nothing is almost never the right answer. There is sufficient body of evidence to at least establish a pattern of civil rights being eroded in the U.S., granted for very complex and often perfectly valid reasons. That's what leadership is about -- cutting through complexity to guide the overarching system in the right direction. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that from our government. EDIT: I also agree that the original argument smells unnecessarily of conspiracy theories and drastically oversimplifies the issues.

speeder 13y ago
I never said there is a conspiracy... It is only the observable behaviour, it is that the people in power do have ties in the corporation, what they do, naturally go in the direction of self-preservation, not fairness or justice. For all the people in power in the US, when a situation is bad for them (for example the risk of the USD becoming valueless, or of a country stopping to do business with their companies), why they would refrain themselves from using that power to their interests? Specially in a individualistic society... What bothers me is why people lie to themselves, and lie to others about it? Why the US sent a aircraft carrier here in 1964 to defend "freedom" and instead helped dictators? Why when Brazil announced it found massive amounts of oil on its coast, US announced the reactivation of the Fourth Fleet and sent ships here while claiming it was to fight drug smugglers? (that by the way, were sent back that time when Brazil invited Russia to do "exercises" here, and the Russian ships did came, probably for their own selfish reasons too) EDIT: Lincoln Gordon (US Ambassador) before brazillian 1964 coup: "covert support for pro-democracy street rallies…and encouragement [of] democratic and anti-communist sentiment in Congress, armed forces, friendly labor and student groups, church, and business" CIA message to Washington recently declassified message after the coup: "The change in government will create a greatly improved climate for foreign investments." Now tell me the coup was about freedom and not corporate interests.

speeder 13y ago

I never said there is a conspiracy... It is only the observable behaviour, it is that the people in power do have ties in the corporation, what they do, naturally go in the direction of self-preservation, not fairness or justice. For all the people in power in the US, when a situation is bad for them (for example the risk of the USD becoming valueless, or of a country stopping to do business with their companies), why they would refrain themselves from using that power to their interests? Specially in a individualistic society... What bothers me is why people lie to themselves, and lie to others about it? Why the US sent a aircraft carrier here in 1964 to defend "freedom" and instead helped dictators? Why when Brazil announced it found massive amounts of oil on its coast, US announced the reactivation of the Fourth Fleet and sent ships here while claiming it was to fight drug smugglers? (that by the way, were sent back that time when Brazil invited Russia to do "exercises" here, and the Russian ships did came, probably for their own selfish reasons too) EDIT: Lincoln Gordon (US Ambassador) before brazillian 1964 coup: "covert support for pro-democracy street rallies…and encouragement [of] democratic and anti-communist sentiment in Congress, armed forces, friendly labor and student groups, church, and business" CIA message to Washington recently declassified message after the coup: "The change in government will create a greatly improved climate for foreign investments." Now tell me the coup was about freedom and not corporate interests.