3 ms·

There is no such thing as "valid or invalid opinions". There are only opinions you agree with or disagree with, or (mistaken or accurate) statements of fact th

by jlgreco 14y ago

There is no such thing as "valid or invalid opinions". There are only opinions you agree with or disagree with, or (mistaken or accurate) statements of fact that the speaker is inaccurately calling an opinion ("The moon is made of cheese" is not an opinion, even if the speaker states that it is. Additionally it can be said to be false). CmdrTaco's opinion ("Lame") is an opinion, not a statement of fact masquerading as an opinion, so it is neither valid nor invalid. Most reasonable people would strongly disagree with this opinion.

coldtea 14y ago
>There is no such thing as "valid or invalid opinions". Well, for all practical purposes there is. You're having an underlying premise that personal value/taste judgements cannot by definition be wrong, which I strongly disagree with. It might not be as clear cut as 1+1=2, but that doesn't mean that everything goes. If opinions were such as you suggest (totally separate from judgements of fact and totally divorced from the realm of validity or invalidity), there would be no point in sharing them, because they would be totally irrelevant, irreducible and meaningless to anybody but the person having them. This whole thing is based on the idea of "opinion" as "personal taste beyond critique". Like one happens to like brocolli whereas another likes nachos. Well, in my, err, opinion, even taste for food can be subject to critique. If a food is bad for you, I can say you're wrong to like it. Even if he says "this food is lame FOR ME", one can show him that his "personal taste" is mostly a cultural construction, an effect of early nurture, national cuisine, class, etc. So, it can be "lame for you" just because you don't know any different. >CmdrTaco's opinion ("Lame") is an opinion, not a statement of fact masquerading as an opinion, so it is neither valid nor invalid. There is a thing such as an external reality, and in that reality things have attributes and rankings. If from nothing else, at least from expert and general consensus. And I don't think either the expert's or the general consensus validates his opinion.
- jlgreco 14y ago
  All you are saying is that most people have a different opinion than him. In other words that he is subjectively wrong. If opinions could be objectively right or wrong, then they would not be opinions.
  - pkroll 14y ago
    If someone has the opinion that they can leap off a building and fly with their psychic power, the ground still awaits. I'm not saying you're wrong about the specific case here, but people throw "opinion" around sometimes when they mean "I don't like the facts so I don't believe them."
  - coldtea 14y ago
    >All you are saying is that most people have a different opinion than him. In other words that he is subjectively wrong No, I'm also making the bigger claim that "most people have a different opinion than him" _for good reason_. That is based on a qualitative appreciation of certain measurable aspects of reality. Plus, opinions are also based on facts. If you get the facts wrong, or get what the facts imply wrong, then your opinion is also wrong. (a crude example: I, mistakenly, believe that Mother Teresa killed millions of people, so "in my opinion she is evil")
    - jlgreco 14y ago
      What fact is "blue is the best" based on? You have a very warped idea of what opinions have to be; you are confusing statements of fact with opinions.

by jlgreco 14y ago

coldtea 14y ago

>There is no such thing as "valid or invalid opinions". Well, for all practical purposes there is. You're having an underlying premise that personal value/taste judgements cannot by definition be wrong, which I strongly disagree with. It might not be as clear cut as 1+1=2, but that doesn't mean that everything goes. If opinions were such as you suggest (totally separate from judgements of fact and totally divorced from the realm of validity or invalidity), there would be no point in sharing them, because they would be totally irrelevant, irreducible and meaningless to anybody but the person having them. This whole thing is based on the idea of "opinion" as "personal taste beyond critique". Like one happens to like brocolli whereas another likes nachos. Well, in my, err, opinion, even taste for food can be subject to critique. If a food is bad for you, I can say you're wrong to like it. Even if he says "this food is lame FOR ME", one can show him that his "personal taste" is mostly a cultural construction, an effect of early nurture, national cuisine, class, etc. So, it can be "lame for you" just because you don't know any different. >CmdrTaco's opinion ("Lame") is an opinion, not a statement of fact masquerading as an opinion, so it is neither valid nor invalid. There is a thing such as an external reality, and in that reality things have attributes and rankings. If from nothing else, at least from expert and general consensus. And I don't think either the expert's or the general consensus validates his opinion.

jlgreco 14y ago
All you are saying is that most people have a different opinion than him. In other words that he is subjectively wrong. If opinions could be objectively right or wrong, then they would not be opinions.
- pkroll 14y ago
  If someone has the opinion that they can leap off a building and fly with their psychic power, the ground still awaits. I'm not saying you're wrong about the specific case here, but people throw "opinion" around sometimes when they mean "I don't like the facts so I don't believe them."
- coldtea 14y ago
  >All you are saying is that most people have a different opinion than him. In other words that he is subjectively wrong No, I'm also making the bigger claim that "most people have a different opinion than him" _for good reason_. That is based on a qualitative appreciation of certain measurable aspects of reality. Plus, opinions are also based on facts. If you get the facts wrong, or get what the facts imply wrong, then your opinion is also wrong. (a crude example: I, mistakenly, believe that Mother Teresa killed millions of people, so "in my opinion she is evil")
  - jlgreco 14y ago
    What fact is "blue is the best" based on? You have a very warped idea of what opinions have to be; you are confusing statements of fact with opinions.