4 ms·

Yes, all of those gun friendly countries are doing so well and would love to have you.

hga 14y ago
There's always Switzerland, although I expect it to go to hell WRT to guns in due course, they've been moving in that direction for some time.
- vacri 14y ago
  Swiss ownership of guns is nothing like US ownership. 'guns per capita' doesn't illuminate anything about the significant cultural differences.
  - hga 14y ago
    Errrm, isn't it the case that the default is that a Swiss citizen can own guns? Which is the default for 2/3rds of the US population, and includes permanent resident aliens. I know there are significant cultural differences, but when you come down to it, does the government trust the people or not? This is the touchstone for that question.
    - eli 14y ago
      Sorta. It's more like a significant portion of the population is required to be in the army reserves.
    - sixothree 14y ago
      The laws are definitely more strict. Every purchase requires a permit. If you sell a gun to an individual, you are required to keep record for 10 years. Nevermind that Americans have no sense of civic duty.
      - hga 14y ago
        Is the permitting based on the "shall issue" principle? I.e. do the authorities determine if the applicant is not a banned individual and then automatically issue the permit? Or does the applicant have to jump through hoops?
      - greedo 14y ago
        Definitely. Americans never serve jury duty, volunteer for the military, maintain volunteer fire departments, donate to charity on an incredible per capita basis, work in food banks, volunteer to provide free medical/dental care to less fortunate countries, etc etc. We're all just sitting around drinking out of our Buy N Large sodas watching the latest Kardashian life drama.
    - vacri 14y ago
      No, it's not 'the touchstone' for the question. It's a massive oversimplification to claim it's only or fundamentally about governmental trust. You hand-wave away the cultural differences, but they are highly significant when comparing the Swiss and the American experience of firearms held by the public.
      - hga 14y ago
        Without answering my question about it being a default, you're misstating my position. Let me try again: The touchstone of whether a government trusts it people is allowing them to keep and bear arms without conditions besides the usual disbarments for criminals and the seriously mentally ill. This is only tangentially related to their actually doing so and why. 14-17% of American gunowners (if you assume there are only 75 million, which I think is low) do so at least to hunt. In Western Europe that's obviously a lot more limited due to population density. In Switzerland, a max of 600,000 or so can be issued the current service rifle (because that's how many were manufactured...) and serve in any capacity including the reserves, which by tradition is structured differently (e.g. personal weapon stored at home). The best source I can find now for a relevant quote from John McPhee's La Place de la Concorde Suisse, written back in 1984 when this was very significant, is "Communist Swiss soldiers keep rifles and machine guns at home. It is said that this is not dangerous for political purposes; it is dangerous only for the wife."

hga 14y ago

There's always Switzerland, although I expect it to go to hell WRT to guns in due course, they've been moving in that direction for some time.

vacri 14y ago
Swiss ownership of guns is nothing like US ownership. 'guns per capita' doesn't illuminate anything about the significant cultural differences.
- hga 14y ago
  Errrm, isn't it the case that the default is that a Swiss citizen can own guns? Which is the default for 2/3rds of the US population, and includes permanent resident aliens. I know there are significant cultural differences, but when you come down to it, does the government trust the people or not? This is the touchstone for that question.
  - eli 14y ago
    Sorta. It's more like a significant portion of the population is required to be in the army reserves.
  - sixothree 14y ago
    The laws are definitely more strict. Every purchase requires a permit. If you sell a gun to an individual, you are required to keep record for 10 years. Nevermind that Americans have no sense of civic duty.
    - hga 14y ago
      Is the permitting based on the "shall issue" principle? I.e. do the authorities determine if the applicant is not a banned individual and then automatically issue the permit? Or does the applicant have to jump through hoops?
    - greedo 14y ago
      Definitely. Americans never serve jury duty, volunteer for the military, maintain volunteer fire departments, donate to charity on an incredible per capita basis, work in food banks, volunteer to provide free medical/dental care to less fortunate countries, etc etc. We're all just sitting around drinking out of our Buy N Large sodas watching the latest Kardashian life drama.
  - vacri 14y ago
    No, it's not 'the touchstone' for the question. It's a massive oversimplification to claim it's only or fundamentally about governmental trust. You hand-wave away the cultural differences, but they are highly significant when comparing the Swiss and the American experience of firearms held by the public.
    - hga 14y ago
      Without answering my question about it being a default, you're misstating my position. Let me try again: The touchstone of whether a government trusts it people is allowing them to keep and bear arms without conditions besides the usual disbarments for criminals and the seriously mentally ill. This is only tangentially related to their actually doing so and why. 14-17% of American gunowners (if you assume there are only 75 million, which I think is low) do so at least to hunt. In Western Europe that's obviously a lot more limited due to population density. In Switzerland, a max of 600,000 or so can be issued the current service rifle (because that's how many were manufactured...) and serve in any capacity including the reserves, which by tradition is structured differently (e.g. personal weapon stored at home). The best source I can find now for a relevant quote from John McPhee's La Place de la Concorde Suisse, written back in 1984 when this was very significant, is "Communist Swiss soldiers keep rifles and machine guns at home. It is said that this is not dangerous for political purposes; it is dangerous only for the wife."