3 ms·

>> I get that we're all supposed to hate Monsanto because they're a corporation (something which they apparently don't have in common with the YC-backed compani

>> I get that we're all supposed to hate Monsanto because they're a corporation (something which they apparently don't have in common with the YC-backed companies) Can you name any YC-backed companies whose products are widely suspected to be causing unprecedented harm to society (or at least have the potential to) but are getting increasing legal immunity? We also hate corporations that enforce patents in software because it's ridiculous to patent software - how about patenting genetic codes?

tptacek 14y ago
What "unprecedented harm" are you referring to here?
- TallGuyShort 14y ago
  Are you kidding? There have been a number of studies on hive collapse, organ failure and other problems that appear to implicate Monsanto that have been widely discussed on HN. To be clear I'm not saying that any one of these studies absolutely conclusively points a finger of blame on Monsanto - I'm saying that there is enough suspicion of harm that saying we hate them just because they are incorporated is an even more ridiculous accusation than any of the above.
  - jacoblyles 14y ago
    This is the very definition of FUD.
    - TallGuyShort 14y ago
      And if they weren't such aggressive lobbyists, I would agree with you. My original point was that they are much more deserving of close scrutiny at this point than any YC-backed company. Do you dispute that?
      - jacoblyles 14y ago
        America has a strong environmentalist lobby that would like to kill GMO research and put agriculture back into the Stone Age. Monsanto needs a powerful lobbying arm for defensive purposes. A hostile government could hound them out of existence otherwise either through new legislation or through executive action by the EPA and USDA.
  - tptacek 14y ago
    Organ failure from Roundup-Ready soy?
    - TallGuyShort 14y ago
      Claiming people hate Monsanto just because they're a corporation?
      - tptacek 14y ago
        Non sequitur. I asked for you to expand on the "unprecedented harm" caused by Monsanto, and you gave me "organ failure". I asked a question about that claim, and you dodged it. Want to try again?
        TallGuyShort 14y ago
        You asked me to expand on "unprecedented harm" in the context of reasons people hate Monsanto, and I gave you the 2 reasons I hear most often from people who hate Monsanto: hive collapse, organ failure, both of which I originally heard about on HN. Google either one and you'll see that these are exactly what I said they are: widely suspected as being caused by Monsanto GMO. The former, I'll agree, has practically been proven false. I never once stated definitively that Monsanto was causing harm, I said they were widely suspected, that they had the potential to, and that they were receiving additional legal protections - and that that is why people hate them. It's not comparable at all to YC companies, and the implication that HNers who hate Monsanto are hypocrites is false, and is, in fact, more ridiculous a claim than that Monsanto GMO crops cause this damage. Show me a full, capital-letter-to-period sentence that I have written that is untrue and I'll agree that I dodged something.
        tptacek 14y ago
        You write this as if the comments you originally wrote aren't right there in the thread.
mpyne 14y ago
Well, Hipmunk (to pick a random one I've happened to use before) makes it easier to fly around, which causes increased carbon emissions into the atmosphere, which causes increased sea levels and higher global temperatures. YC is funding the destruction of the planet! > We also hate corporations that enforce patents in software because it's ridiculous to patent software - how about patenting genetic codes? Well, that's why I mentioned alternative IP regimes. I don't believe one should be able to patent a "natural fact" (such as my own genes), but I also don't feel that the skill and capital required to move genes from one cell to another in a manner which is still viable and ends up being more useful is completely immaterial. For software programs we have copyright, not patent, to protect us. Let me be very clear, I'm a big fan of the GPL, and it requires a strong IP regime to work. But I'm not sure that "copyright" would apply exactly to genetic code either, though maybe Monsanto could make that work. Pick your poison. :P
- TallGuyShort 14y ago
  I would agree with your last points, but I still see almost zero connection between the actual reasons why people hate Monsanto and Hipmunk.
  - mpyne 14y ago
    I hope no one hates Hipmunk, it's the best way I've ever booked a flight, bar none. I just hope the sea level holds up long enough to retire to some tropical island.
rayiner 14y ago
How many YC-backed companies are simply facets of the half-trillion dollar global advertising industry, which is rooted in trademark monopolies and has the effect of getting people to pay huge premiums for cheap products by creating artificial differentiation between otherwise fungible goods?

tptacek 14y ago

What "unprecedented harm" are you referring to here?

TallGuyShort 14y ago
Are you kidding? There have been a number of studies on hive collapse, organ failure and other problems that appear to implicate Monsanto that have been widely discussed on HN. To be clear I'm not saying that any one of these studies absolutely conclusively points a finger of blame on Monsanto - I'm saying that there is enough suspicion of harm that saying we hate them just because they are incorporated is an even more ridiculous accusation than any of the above.
- jacoblyles 14y ago
  This is the very definition of FUD.
  - TallGuyShort 14y ago
    And if they weren't such aggressive lobbyists, I would agree with you. My original point was that they are much more deserving of close scrutiny at this point than any YC-backed company. Do you dispute that?
    - jacoblyles 14y ago
      America has a strong environmentalist lobby that would like to kill GMO research and put agriculture back into the Stone Age. Monsanto needs a powerful lobbying arm for defensive purposes. A hostile government could hound them out of existence otherwise either through new legislation or through executive action by the EPA and USDA.
- tptacek 14y ago
  Organ failure from Roundup-Ready soy?
  - TallGuyShort 14y ago
    Claiming people hate Monsanto just because they're a corporation?
    - tptacek 14y ago
      Non sequitur. I asked for you to expand on the "unprecedented harm" caused by Monsanto, and you gave me "organ failure". I asked a question about that claim, and you dodged it. Want to try again?
      - TallGuyShort 14y ago
        You asked me to expand on "unprecedented harm" in the context of reasons people hate Monsanto, and I gave you the 2 reasons I hear most often from people who hate Monsanto: hive collapse, organ failure, both of which I originally heard about on HN. Google either one and you'll see that these are exactly what I said they are: widely suspected as being caused by Monsanto GMO. The former, I'll agree, has practically been proven false. I never once stated definitively that Monsanto was causing harm, I said they were widely suspected, that they had the potential to, and that they were receiving additional legal protections - and that that is why people hate them. It's not comparable at all to YC companies, and the implication that HNers who hate Monsanto are hypocrites is false, and is, in fact, more ridiculous a claim than that Monsanto GMO crops cause this damage. Show me a full, capital-letter-to-period sentence that I have written that is untrue and I'll agree that I dodged something.
        tptacek 14y ago
        You write this as if the comments you originally wrote aren't right there in the thread.

mpyne 14y ago

Well, Hipmunk (to pick a random one I've happened to use before) makes it easier to fly around, which causes increased carbon emissions into the atmosphere, which causes increased sea levels and higher global temperatures. YC is funding the destruction of the planet! > We also hate corporations that enforce patents in software because it's ridiculous to patent software - how about patenting genetic codes? Well, that's why I mentioned alternative IP regimes. I don't believe one should be able to patent a "natural fact" (such as my own genes), but I also don't feel that the skill and capital required to move genes from one cell to another in a manner which is still viable and ends up being more useful is completely immaterial. For software programs we have copyright, not patent, to protect us. Let me be very clear, I'm a big fan of the GPL, and it requires a strong IP regime to work. But I'm not sure that "copyright" would apply exactly to genetic code either, though maybe Monsanto could make that work. Pick your poison. :P

TallGuyShort 14y ago
I would agree with your last points, but I still see almost zero connection between the actual reasons why people hate Monsanto and Hipmunk.
- mpyne 14y ago
  I hope no one hates Hipmunk, it's the best way I've ever booked a flight, bar none. I just hope the sea level holds up long enough to retire to some tropical island.

rayiner 14y ago

How many YC-backed companies are simply facets of the half-trillion dollar global advertising industry, which is rooted in trademark monopolies and has the effect of getting people to pay huge premiums for cheap products by creating artificial differentiation between otherwise fungible goods?