4 ms·

Isn't this already the case? Netflix forces users to use Silverlight; YouTube won't serve HTML5 videos if ads are enabled. The "Open Web" is already lacking the

Isn't this already the case? Netflix forces users to use Silverlight; YouTube won't serve HTML5 videos if ads are enabled. The "Open Web" is already lacking their content because they rely on DRM already. Content industries won't give up on publishing, they'll just pursue the current status quo of terrible plugins for the imaginary protection DRM gives them. In an ideal world the executives concerned about piracy would realise their errors, but from my perspective, DRM'd HTML5 videos natively decoded are a world better than those reluctantly vomited out using Flash.

AaronFriel 13y ago
It's the case for some industries, but it's a fallacious example. You're citing cases where businesses have been successful, I would say, in spite of DRM, in industries where the status quo is accepting DRM or having no content. Amazon distributes MP3s via "the open web" - sure, it's via MP3 files over HTTP, but an <audio> tag can pull that, Amazon could (and perhaps does) implement their cloud player in that manner anyway. Valve's Steam distributes a great deal of games without DRM - games are high margin products compared to music singles or DVDs, yet they seem quite successful. I try, or often only buy DRM-free games on Steam to support them. Apple's iTunes switched in the past few years to distributing music without DRM that encumbered their files and locked in consumers to their iEcosystem. Those files can be uploaded, trivially, to any file sharing network. The Gordian knot of the problem of piracy and DRM is that only one dedicated person needs to leak it, and as long as I can listen to, look at or sense content, the analog hole will exist. Content industries have tried the approach of treating all of their customers like criminals, and it's been awful for consumers and the amount of content available trivially on peer to peer networks hasn't decreased or even decelerated, as far as I can tell. This treating everyone like a criminal to prevent one dedicated attacker is insane in the colloquial sense, wherein content companies try DRM over and over again and expect different results. I say, let Hollywood and the video content industry squirm until it realizes it needs the internet more than the internet needs it.
- kevingadd 13y ago
  Sorry, Steam games are not DRM-free. It is however the case that Steam has some of the least aggressive DRM you'll find in video games, but it is absolutely not DRM-free.
  - throwaway2048 13y ago
    many games distributed on steam do not require steam at all to run. ie, all the humble bundle games.
    - kevingadd 13y ago
      Yes, but the steam releases typically still have Steamworks DRM, as far as I know - otherwise Steam Achievements and similar features wouldn't work. Has that changed? Can you just copy the folder out of steamapps and run it on another computer?
      - throwaway2048 13y ago
        yes, just tested with binding of issac for instance, which has steam achivements and steam cloud sync, works without steam on a different system entirely.
gsnedders 13y ago
How is a third-party black-box module decoding it to a specific point on the viewport a "world better" than Flash, a third-party black-box module, decoding it to a specific point on the viewpoint?
- rainforest 13y ago
  The former doesn't include redundant duplication of functionality and other bells and whistles. Since the only objective is decrypting content it'll presumably be more practical to port (and reverse engineer) and ship with fewer security vulnerabilities. It's by no means perfect, but the less that can be delegated to a plugin the better in my view. I don't see this as an ideal choice, just a pragmatic choice for a better option given the circumstances. My quantification for "a world better" relies on the subjective judgement that Flash is worlds worse than some mystery crypto blob. I believe that to be the case.
  - gsnedders 13y ago
    Practicality of porting was never a driving concern for Flash: it was business viability. I don't expect any more platforms to be supported than are today.
    - rainforest 13y ago
      Flash is a considerably larger undertaking than a plugin though; if the interface is standard shipping on different platforms should just involve setting up appropriate QA and another make target. At the very least, the decision of what platforms lies with the provider trying to extract money from the market, rather than one of its suppliers - that's surely an improvement?
  - AaronFriel 13y ago
    Since the topic is DRM, and DRM only works if you don't know how it works... > Since the only objective is decrypting content it'll presumably be more practical to port (and reverse engineer) I cannot comprehend the confusion of ideas that could provoke such a suggestion. Do you really believe open source platforms will get an open source module? Do you think it'll be anything but a black box whose nature, by definition, precludes anyone knowing what it does? Where will you get your guarantees about security vulnerabilities, when the very nature of the code will be, must be such that it is as difficult to discern its purpose and mechanism of operation as possible.

AaronFriel 13y ago

It's the case for some industries, but it's a fallacious example. You're citing cases where businesses have been successful, I would say, in spite of DRM, in industries where the status quo is accepting DRM or having no content. Amazon distributes MP3s via "the open web" - sure, it's via MP3 files over HTTP, but an <audio> tag can pull that, Amazon could (and perhaps does) implement their cloud player in that manner anyway. Valve's Steam distributes a great deal of games without DRM - games are high margin products compared to music singles or DVDs, yet they seem quite successful. I try, or often only buy DRM-free games on Steam to support them. Apple's iTunes switched in the past few years to distributing music without DRM that encumbered their files and locked in consumers to their iEcosystem. Those files can be uploaded, trivially, to any file sharing network. The Gordian knot of the problem of piracy and DRM is that only one dedicated person needs to leak it, and as long as I can listen to, look at or sense content, the analog hole will exist. Content industries have tried the approach of treating all of their customers like criminals, and it's been awful for consumers and the amount of content available trivially on peer to peer networks hasn't decreased or even decelerated, as far as I can tell. This treating everyone like a criminal to prevent one dedicated attacker is insane in the colloquial sense, wherein content companies try DRM over and over again and expect different results. I say, let Hollywood and the video content industry squirm until it realizes it needs the internet more than the internet needs it.

kevingadd 13y ago
Sorry, Steam games are not DRM-free. It is however the case that Steam has some of the least aggressive DRM you'll find in video games, but it is absolutely not DRM-free.
- throwaway2048 13y ago
  many games distributed on steam do not require steam at all to run. ie, all the humble bundle games.
  - kevingadd 13y ago
    Yes, but the steam releases typically still have Steamworks DRM, as far as I know - otherwise Steam Achievements and similar features wouldn't work. Has that changed? Can you just copy the folder out of steamapps and run it on another computer?
    - throwaway2048 13y ago
      yes, just tested with binding of issac for instance, which has steam achivements and steam cloud sync, works without steam on a different system entirely.

gsnedders 13y ago

How is a third-party black-box module decoding it to a specific point on the viewport a "world better" than Flash, a third-party black-box module, decoding it to a specific point on the viewpoint?

rainforest 13y ago
The former doesn't include redundant duplication of functionality and other bells and whistles. Since the only objective is decrypting content it'll presumably be more practical to port (and reverse engineer) and ship with fewer security vulnerabilities. It's by no means perfect, but the less that can be delegated to a plugin the better in my view. I don't see this as an ideal choice, just a pragmatic choice for a better option given the circumstances. My quantification for "a world better" relies on the subjective judgement that Flash is worlds worse than some mystery crypto blob. I believe that to be the case.
- gsnedders 13y ago
  Practicality of porting was never a driving concern for Flash: it was business viability. I don't expect any more platforms to be supported than are today.
  - rainforest 13y ago
    Flash is a considerably larger undertaking than a plugin though; if the interface is standard shipping on different platforms should just involve setting up appropriate QA and another make target. At the very least, the decision of what platforms lies with the provider trying to extract money from the market, rather than one of its suppliers - that's surely an improvement?
- AaronFriel 13y ago
  Since the topic is DRM, and DRM only works if you don't know how it works... > Since the only objective is decrypting content it'll presumably be more practical to port (and reverse engineer) I cannot comprehend the confusion of ideas that could provoke such a suggestion. Do you really believe open source platforms will get an open source module? Do you think it'll be anything but a black box whose nature, by definition, precludes anyone knowing what it does? Where will you get your guarantees about security vulnerabilities, when the very nature of the code will be, must be such that it is as difficult to discern its purpose and mechanism of operation as possible.