3 ms·

"Just stop" sounds like a warning to me. Olav's comment about google plus and mailing lists suggest to me that Felipe has been on a crusade about this topic an

by cdmoyer 13y ago

"Just stop" sounds like a warning to me. Olav's comment about google plus and mailing lists suggest to me that Felipe has been on a crusade about this topic and using and soap box he could find. As any sort of community or project admin, the behavior of being told no and the constantly raising the issue and trying to drum up support is really annoying and likely to result in this type of situation. I mean, I haven't used gnome in years or followed the community, but just reading the OP's post defending himself made me want to ban him. We can argue all day about a platonic world of argument and enlightenment where tone doesn't matter... But we live in the real world with real people.

sgift 13y ago
> I mean, I haven't used gnome in years or followed the community, but just reading the OP's post defending himself made me want to ban him. We can argue all day about a platonic world of argument and enlightenment where tone doesn't matter... But we live in the real world with real people. And that is the moment someone who knows how to handle such a situation takes his fingers of the keyboard, gets a tea, takes a stroll or does whatever he needs to do to be able to handle the situation rationally later. The others? They behave like a three year old: "I will NEVER play with you again!!!!" and swing the ban hammer.
- jre 13y ago
  To be fair, they should both have taken your advice. Felipe made is point in hist first post, refuting the arguments that needed to be. The following posts (by both Olav and Felipe) are just noise. The whole thread turns into a silly "I want the last word" dispute.
  - sgift 13y ago
    Yes, I didn't want to imply that Felipe is without fault here, but a ban is a real drastic measure, which should stay reserved for situations where there's no other way. And even then I stand by my assertion: Never ban in an emotionally charged situation. Taking a break and handling the situation later will almost always give better results. (Just in case anyone wonders: I was - as far as I know - never on the receiving end of a ban hammer, but more than once on the giving end.)
    - bkor 13y ago
      A ban is not drastic at all. GNOME Bugzilla is for bugreports. There is no freedom of speech. If someone mostly contributes noise, does not want to listen, he's asked multiple times to please change his attitude, still continues, then the person will get banned. Felipe is suggesting in some other comment that this should all be per conversation method. E.g. warn him very clearly on this topic in GNOME Bugzilla separately from private email, mailing lists as well as Google+. Wrong expectation to have.
felipec 13y ago
> "Just stop" sounds like a warning to me. A warning of what? If a person on the street tells you to "stop", your first reaction would be to ask "stop what?", and the answer is "stop chewing gum", to which you reply "but there's nothing wrong with chewing gum", and then you are thrown to jail for all time. You see what's wrong here, don't you? First of all a warning should convey the punishment; maybe a fine, maybe jail time, etc. Secondly, you can't assume that anybody that tells you to stop doing something is some kind of authority. In my case Olav never made it clear he had the power to ban me, nor that he was contemplating using it. Thirdly, saying "there's nothing wrong with chewing gum" is argumentation, it's not a second offence. And yeah, surely Olav might have been annoyed by comments I made in other forums, but comments in other forums shouldn't be used as reasons for a ban bugzilla. I always provided value in bugzilla for years, and was banned for a couple of comments. Seems a bit unfair. I know this is tedious, but these guys don't leave any alternative. I couldn't comment in bugzilla any more, I didn't receive an email notification, and nobody from bugmaster@gnome.org wanted to hear my case. What am I supposed to do? If GNOME was handled properly, none of this would have happened.

by cdmoyer 13y ago

sgift 13y ago

> I mean, I haven't used gnome in years or followed the community, but just reading the OP's post defending himself made me want to ban him. We can argue all day about a platonic world of argument and enlightenment where tone doesn't matter... But we live in the real world with real people. And that is the moment someone who knows how to handle such a situation takes his fingers of the keyboard, gets a tea, takes a stroll or does whatever he needs to do to be able to handle the situation rationally later. The others? They behave like a three year old: "I will NEVER play with you again!!!!" and swing the ban hammer.

jre 13y ago
To be fair, they should both have taken your advice. Felipe made is point in hist first post, refuting the arguments that needed to be. The following posts (by both Olav and Felipe) are just noise. The whole thread turns into a silly "I want the last word" dispute.
- sgift 13y ago
  Yes, I didn't want to imply that Felipe is without fault here, but a ban is a real drastic measure, which should stay reserved for situations where there's no other way. And even then I stand by my assertion: Never ban in an emotionally charged situation. Taking a break and handling the situation later will almost always give better results. (Just in case anyone wonders: I was - as far as I know - never on the receiving end of a ban hammer, but more than once on the giving end.)
  - bkor 13y ago
    A ban is not drastic at all. GNOME Bugzilla is for bugreports. There is no freedom of speech. If someone mostly contributes noise, does not want to listen, he's asked multiple times to please change his attitude, still continues, then the person will get banned. Felipe is suggesting in some other comment that this should all be per conversation method. E.g. warn him very clearly on this topic in GNOME Bugzilla separately from private email, mailing lists as well as Google+. Wrong expectation to have.

felipec 13y ago

> "Just stop" sounds like a warning to me. A warning of what? If a person on the street tells you to "stop", your first reaction would be to ask "stop what?", and the answer is "stop chewing gum", to which you reply "but there's nothing wrong with chewing gum", and then you are thrown to jail for all time. You see what's wrong here, don't you? First of all a warning should convey the punishment; maybe a fine, maybe jail time, etc. Secondly, you can't assume that anybody that tells you to stop doing something is some kind of authority. In my case Olav never made it clear he had the power to ban me, nor that he was contemplating using it. Thirdly, saying "there's nothing wrong with chewing gum" is argumentation, it's not a second offence. And yeah, surely Olav might have been annoyed by comments I made in other forums, but comments in other forums shouldn't be used as reasons for a ban bugzilla. I always provided value in bugzilla for years, and was banned for a couple of comments. Seems a bit unfair. I know this is tedious, but these guys don't leave any alternative. I couldn't comment in bugzilla any more, I didn't receive an email notification, and nobody from bugmaster@gnome.org wanted to hear my case. What am I supposed to do? If GNOME was handled properly, none of this would have happened.