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>I don't begin to believe this statement, not least of which because 99% of what you can do with vim or emacs is make vim or emacs do what you want by heavily s

>I don't begin to believe this statement, not least of which because 99% of what you can do with vim or emacs is make vim or emacs do what you want by heavily scripting them. That eliminates most "modern editors" right off the bat. Every single "modern editor" I'm talking about is scriptable, and they're scriptable in languages that are easier to code in than vimscript (which is infamously awful) or Lisp. Some are even scriptable in positively awesome languages. Not sure what "modern editor" you're talking about. See: Notepad++: http://sourceforge.net/p/notepad-plus/discussion/1290590 http://sourceforge.net/p/notepad-plus/discussion/1290590 Visual Studio: You can record a macro and get code that you can then edit, adding loops and logic and such, and then play back the macro. Or you can extend it in an arbitrary way: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/vstudio/ff718165.aspx http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/vstudio/ff718165.aspx Visual Slickedit: Half of the app is written in its own custom C-like scripting language. Similar to Visual Studio, you can record a macro and edit the resulting source code, so you don't have to guess how to start creating a script. TextAdept: Scriptable in Lua. http://foicica.com/textadept/ http://foicica.com/textadept/ TextMate: "Plug-able Through Your Favorite Scripting Language" http://macromates.com/ http://macromates.com/ Sublime Text: "Sublime Text has a powerful, Python based plugin API. Along with the API, it comes with a built in Python console to interactively experiment in real time." -- This one I haven't used, so I can't be CERTAIN that you can write-and-use scripts immediately and trivially, but it certainly sounds like it. http://www.sublimetext.com/ http://www.sublimetext.com/ NEdit: "NEdit is extensible through a C-like macro language" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEdit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEdit SCIte: "In addition, the Lua programming language is embedded in SciTE, allowing the user further customization. One can write Lua scripts that have access to the contents of the buffer and the Scintilla API." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SciTE https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SciTE I've been clicking on random ones in the WikiPedia article on text editors [1], and except for the editors that "come with the OS" (Notepad, etc.), every one I checked had scripting. I actually clicked on SciTE to give a counter-example, since SciTE is mostly a proof-of-concept for the Scintilla editor library. I would have to say, given the ubiquity of scripting languages in editors, that you haven't LOOKED for scripting in other editors. Which is FINE, but You Do Not Know Of What You Speak (TM). Even if you can point to some that don't have scripting, it doesn't matter. Plenty do, and scripting is important to me as well. The crucial thing for me is the ability to quickly record and play back a macro; I wouldn't use any editor long term without that feature. You really can't win this argument. I've traded blows with many extremely experienced vim users, and for every transform that's easier in vim than in another editor, I can come up with three more transforms easier in one or more editors I know. And the real win of using a modern editor is that the core keys (arrows, shift-arrow to select, control-arrow to jump by word, etc.) also work in thousands of other GUI apps, so you don't have to mode shift to be reasonably productive in a Firefox text box, for example. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_text_editors https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_text_editors

Stratoscope 13y ago
> And the real win of using a modern editor is that the core keys (arrows, shift-arrow to select, control-arrow to jump by word, etc.) also work in thousands of other GUI apps, so you don't have to mode shift to be reasonably productive in a Firefox text box, for example. That's key to how I work. In a typical day I jump around between Komodo, IntelliJ IDEA, Visual Studio, UltraEdit, XML Marker, MarkdownPad, Araxis Merge, Word, Google Docs, Notepad, Evernote, and a few other editors. Thank goodness basic editing works the same in all of them! Quite often I'll have the same file open in more than one editor and do some of my editing in one and some in another. I can save changes in one of the editors, switch to another, and it loads my changes and I pick up right from where I left off in the other editor. Why would I do this crazy thing? One example: if I've got a file open in Komodo or IDEA or whatever and I'm ready to commit it, I always diff it first in Araxis Merge. I'm likely to make some final changes to the file at that point. (Left in a console.log, anyone?) I can make those changes in Araxis or in the other editor I'm working in - and it doesn't matter which, they both work the same and pick up each other's changes. So, I don't have to take sides in any editor wars: I use a bunch of 'em! :-) To add to your scripting list, Komodo is scriptable in Python and JavaScript, with a pretty thorough object model you can use from either language.
taeric 13y ago
You are absolutely correct that "you can not win this argument." But for a reason you are not touching. This is a preference. Almost pure and simple. The idea that someone's preference in editor is enough to make them a good or a bad programmer is borderline laughable. This is akin to arguing that someone should consider switching to non-stick pans for all of their cooking. Because, think of all the time wasted cleaning a pan. Well... for experienced cooks, this really isn't any time that needs saving.

Stratoscope 13y ago

> And the real win of using a modern editor is that the core keys (arrows, shift-arrow to select, control-arrow to jump by word, etc.) also work in thousands of other GUI apps, so you don't have to mode shift to be reasonably productive in a Firefox text box, for example. That's key to how I work. In a typical day I jump around between Komodo, IntelliJ IDEA, Visual Studio, UltraEdit, XML Marker, MarkdownPad, Araxis Merge, Word, Google Docs, Notepad, Evernote, and a few other editors. Thank goodness basic editing works the same in all of them! Quite often I'll have the same file open in more than one editor and do some of my editing in one and some in another. I can save changes in one of the editors, switch to another, and it loads my changes and I pick up right from where I left off in the other editor. Why would I do this crazy thing? One example: if I've got a file open in Komodo or IDEA or whatever and I'm ready to commit it, I always diff it first in Araxis Merge. I'm likely to make some final changes to the file at that point. (Left in a console.log, anyone?) I can make those changes in Araxis or in the other editor I'm working in - and it doesn't matter which, they both work the same and pick up each other's changes. So, I don't have to take sides in any editor wars: I use a bunch of 'em! :-) To add to your scripting list, Komodo is scriptable in Python and JavaScript, with a pretty thorough object model you can use from either language.

taeric 13y ago

You are absolutely correct that "you can not win this argument." But for a reason you are not touching. This is a preference. Almost pure and simple. The idea that someone's preference in editor is enough to make them a good or a bad programmer is borderline laughable. This is akin to arguing that someone should consider switching to non-stick pans for all of their cooking. Because, think of all the time wasted cleaning a pan. Well... for experienced cooks, this really isn't any time that needs saving.