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If you read the Wikipedia article that the author linked to in that assertion[1], you'll find that it mostly agrees with you: > In Raskin's sense and according

by rraval 13y ago

If you read the Wikipedia article that the author linked to in that assertion[1], you'll find that it mostly agrees with you: > In Raskin's sense and according to his definition, an interface is not modal as long as the user is fully aware of its current state. Given this definition, eliminating modes is as simple as making sure that the user is aware of what mode they are in at all times. This makes your assertion problematic: > To think that you can simplify your model of computers to the point that you can eliminate modes is to simplify your model to the point that it is useless for a great many things. I don't think you would argue against the notion that users should be made aware of what mode they are in. A pretty common example comes from the CSS `cursor` property: - If its `default`, clicking should have no effect - If its `pointer`, clicking should have an effect - If its `move`, clicking and dragging should have an effect These cues are far from useless and help transition a modal interface into a modeless one. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mode_(computer_interface) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mode_(computer_interface)

deleted 13y ago
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- rraval 13y ago
  As long as you make sure that the mode vim is in the user's locus of attention. Typically, a user is more focused on the actual text they are trying to edit and thus the vim mode falls out of their locus of attention. So it's not just about displaying what mode the system is in but also making sure that the user is always aware of the mode. It's this mismatch that make modal interfaces bad. Edit: Parent has since deleted their comment. It used to say something along the lines of: > So if I make vim always display the mode its in, does that make it modeless?
  - cjh_ 13y ago
    Good points, displaying the mode isn't enough as you cannot guarantee that the point of display will be sufficient to keep the mode as the user's locus of attention. In vim I get around this by habit, I stay in command mode and only enter insert mode for text entry, and then at the end of a 'unit' of text entry I return to command mode. Thus I always know when I am in insert or command mode by asking 'am I currently entering text', for me hitting ctrl-c after finishing a sentence is part of the act of writing the sentence.
    - rraval 13y ago
      Oh totally, I'm a fellow vim user myself and do exactly as you do. But have you ever had Caps Lock on by accident in normal mode? Most confusing 3 seconds of my life.
      - cjh_ 13y ago
        haha yes, very common to the point where I no longer have a capslock key (my keyboard is programmable, so I nuked it).

by rraval 13y ago

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

rraval 13y ago
As long as you make sure that the mode vim is in the user's locus of attention. Typically, a user is more focused on the actual text they are trying to edit and thus the vim mode falls out of their locus of attention. So it's not just about displaying what mode the system is in but also making sure that the user is always aware of the mode. It's this mismatch that make modal interfaces bad. Edit: Parent has since deleted their comment. It used to say something along the lines of: > So if I make vim always display the mode its in, does that make it modeless?
- cjh_ 13y ago
  Good points, displaying the mode isn't enough as you cannot guarantee that the point of display will be sufficient to keep the mode as the user's locus of attention. In vim I get around this by habit, I stay in command mode and only enter insert mode for text entry, and then at the end of a 'unit' of text entry I return to command mode. Thus I always know when I am in insert or command mode by asking 'am I currently entering text', for me hitting ctrl-c after finishing a sentence is part of the act of writing the sentence.
  - rraval 13y ago
    Oh totally, I'm a fellow vim user myself and do exactly as you do. But have you ever had Caps Lock on by accident in normal mode? Most confusing 3 seconds of my life.
    - cjh_ 13y ago
      haha yes, very common to the point where I no longer have a capslock key (my keyboard is programmable, so I nuked it).