4 ms·

> This guys is totally free to make his points colourfully and passionately however he wants to. I agree. He's created a very good and useful showcase of a spe

by sghill 13y ago

> This guys is totally free to make his points colourfully and passionately however he wants to. I agree. He's created a very good and useful showcase of a specific frustration that many of us would prefer to never implement or deal with. For an exercise in venting, this style makes a lot of sense. > His word choices are not hate speech or discriminatory so the fact that they may offend your sensibilities has precisely zero relevance to anything. The language chosen to express his feelings means that I can't reference this site to anyone I work with in the enterprise world. For giving people materials in fighting against implementing these things, it collects a lot of great examples of why this is frustrating. Unfortunately, sharing it with the people who make these kinds of decisions has "career-limiting move" written all over it. Maybe it will be (is?) licensed in a way that allows for business-friendly adaptation.

antoko 13y ago
That's interesting, I'd have no problem linking this to my boss or PM if they were trying to convince us to implement something that resembled a doorslam. I'd probably include some reference to the fact that the language is colorful in the email and suggest this is the kind of passion that the proposed doorslam will raise in our own customers. I'm a brit living in the US so add that as a datapoint too! It doesn't even register on my offensive scale... did we have this same hand-wringing over zed shaw's programming motherfucker website? I don't recall it if we did. http://programming-motherfucker.com/become.html http://programming-motherfucker.com/become.html
- corin_ 13y ago
  Not really no - quite a few people questioning the validity of it, or it's place on HN, but only one person against the swearing. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2355427 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2355427 On the contrary, most people really motherfucking joined in.
- qu4z-2 13y ago
  I do seem to remember a fair bit of hand-wringing over "heroku fucking console" though.
- sghill 13y ago
  > It doesn't even register on my offensive scale Does it have to? In my experience, taking into consideration how the message receiver might be offended is more important. I'm not personally offended by the language of the tumblr, but I still wouldn't bring it into a business setting because of how others may feel. > did we have this same hand-wringing over zed shaw's programming motherfucker website? To me, the target audience of this site is far different. Some of the same rules apply, but Zed Shaw's site is unlikely to be the basis of an argument for or against any sort of business-level decision. With that being said, I probably wouldn't point an aspiring programmer (or anyone) toward Zed's site unless I knew they were very casual with profanity.
edent 13y ago
If I can find a way to add Creative Commons tags to each image, would that help? If not, please take this as permission to copy those images and make your own non-sweary version.
- sghill 13y ago
  That'd be great! If it's possible to throw something on the footer of the page, that would also be useful to people who don't happen to find it through HN. Nice work in collecting all of these. They make for a great showcase.
begurken 13y ago
If sharing this in your organisation is a career limiting move, may I suggest that your organisation is irretrievably fucked (see what I did there) and only cares about superficial garbage. Such organisations are doomed and tend to be stacked with useless ladder-climbers. My advice; share the article with relevant people if they need education about doorslams. If people complain, tell them that they're shooting the messenger and should pay attention to what they're actually doing, instead of wasting their shareholders' money enforcing bullshit that serves no purpose except for making useless, self-righteous moral defenders feel better. The ideal solution is to never hire self righteous moral defenders because they actively wreck the culture of organisations. Objecting to swearing is a clear case of intolerant asshats choosing to be offended. To avoid these losers in your company, swear when conducting the interview, and if they're so utterly thick and self-righteous that they show offense, stop the interview immediately and show them the door. The person a couple of posts back nailed it when they said this: "His word choices are not hate speech or discriminatory so the fact that they may offend your sensibilities has precisely zero relevance to anything." ... and finally, I thought the article was great. I'm sharing it at work with the product team. Since our product team is free of idiots, I'm pretty sure this won't be a career limiting move.

by sghill 13y ago

antoko 13y ago

That's interesting, I'd have no problem linking this to my boss or PM if they were trying to convince us to implement something that resembled a doorslam. I'd probably include some reference to the fact that the language is colorful in the email and suggest this is the kind of passion that the proposed doorslam will raise in our own customers. I'm a brit living in the US so add that as a datapoint too! It doesn't even register on my offensive scale... did we have this same hand-wringing over zed shaw's programming motherfucker website? I don't recall it if we did. http://programming-motherfucker.com/become.html http://programming-motherfucker.com/become.html

corin_ 13y ago
Not really no - quite a few people questioning the validity of it, or it's place on HN, but only one person against the swearing. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2355427 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2355427 On the contrary, most people really motherfucking joined in.
qu4z-2 13y ago
I do seem to remember a fair bit of hand-wringing over "heroku fucking console" though.
sghill 13y ago
> It doesn't even register on my offensive scale Does it have to? In my experience, taking into consideration how the message receiver might be offended is more important. I'm not personally offended by the language of the tumblr, but I still wouldn't bring it into a business setting because of how others may feel. > did we have this same hand-wringing over zed shaw's programming motherfucker website? To me, the target audience of this site is far different. Some of the same rules apply, but Zed Shaw's site is unlikely to be the basis of an argument for or against any sort of business-level decision. With that being said, I probably wouldn't point an aspiring programmer (or anyone) toward Zed's site unless I knew they were very casual with profanity.

edent 13y ago

If I can find a way to add Creative Commons tags to each image, would that help? If not, please take this as permission to copy those images and make your own non-sweary version.

sghill 13y ago
That'd be great! If it's possible to throw something on the footer of the page, that would also be useful to people who don't happen to find it through HN. Nice work in collecting all of these. They make for a great showcase.

begurken 13y ago

If sharing this in your organisation is a career limiting move, may I suggest that your organisation is irretrievably fucked (see what I did there) and only cares about superficial garbage. Such organisations are doomed and tend to be stacked with useless ladder-climbers. My advice; share the article with relevant people if they need education about doorslams. If people complain, tell them that they're shooting the messenger and should pay attention to what they're actually doing, instead of wasting their shareholders' money enforcing bullshit that serves no purpose except for making useless, self-righteous moral defenders feel better. The ideal solution is to never hire self righteous moral defenders because they actively wreck the culture of organisations. Objecting to swearing is a clear case of intolerant asshats choosing to be offended. To avoid these losers in your company, swear when conducting the interview, and if they're so utterly thick and self-righteous that they show offense, stop the interview immediately and show them the door. The person a couple of posts back nailed it when they said this: "His word choices are not hate speech or discriminatory so the fact that they may offend your sensibilities has precisely zero relevance to anything." ... and finally, I thought the article was great. I'm sharing it at work with the product team. Since our product team is free of idiots, I'm pretty sure this won't be a career limiting move.