3 ms·

Your argument begs the question. "I haven't legal access to something, therefore it is okay for me to steal it because otherwise I couldn't have it." Loot on.

Your argument begs the question. "I haven't legal access to something, therefore it is okay for me to steal it because otherwise I couldn't have it." Loot on. "There is something very wrong when the path of least resistance is often unlawful." Oh man, this is just perfect. Welcome to our future, ladies and gentlemen.

froo 17y ago
Actually supporting the pirating of content isn't my position. My position is that producers/distributors of content crying foul when they're not providing an alternative service that comes close to other non-legal methods seems a bit pathetic. I'm more than happy to pay them for that content, they just need to be able to make it easy, convenient, available and affordable for the consumer. Right now they're pretty much failing on all four points. EDIT - glad you edited your comment after I replied, so allow me to reply to that too. Oh man, this is just perfect. Welcome to our future, ladies and gentlemen. This isn't the future, this is the present, and this IS something that they can change. Unfortunately, they just don't have the balls to do so.
- jobeirne 17y ago
  Granted, I'm with you there; however, just because something isn't readily available does not provide moral justification for its theft.
  - froo 17y ago
    Well that depends on your moral subset, it's an entirely subjective matter. You have a group of film producers that glorify theft, violence, murder and other heinous acts (many of which are morally questionable) in their films for the "entertainment" of the end users. Do you really think consumers are particularly thinking about content producers copyright when they're getting images of decapitation and bloodshed force fed to them? Or to use their own campaigns against them - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmZm8vNHBSU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmZm8vNHBSU "you wouldn't steal a car" - no, but stealing 50 (aka, gone in sixty seconds) is ok. In fact, Hollywood frames the car thief's actions as a noble thing. Personally, I don't think people should pirate stuff (even though it's been happening for longer than the internet has been readily available), but the Pandora's box HAS been opened - it's out there now and we're only seeing filesharing becoming more widespread. Rather than fighting a losing battle, they should instead focus on providing a viable alternative. Instead of trying to stop those consumers who will never pay for content, why not make it stupidly easy for those who will to do so. The music industry caught on, unfortunately the Film/TV industry's ships are still sinking.
    - jobeirne 17y ago
      Morality is not subjective. There is wrong and there is right. Stealing the toils of someone else is wrong. Your argument is still nonsensical; just because Hollywood glorifies theft (which of course they would; it's the allure of the rebel mentality) doesn't make it rational or acceptable. You bless weakness and the rationalization of cowardice.
      - rms 17y ago
        >Morality is not subjective. You make a fact-like statement for what is actually one of the most debated arguments in philosophical history. I disagree, morality is subjective. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_relativism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_relativism
        jobeirne 17y ago
        Moral relativism is to disavow the accumulation of any generalizable logic during humanity's stay. This is trendy and foolish.
        yters 17y ago
        And here you make one of the same lame moral relativist fallacies to back up your point. Parent: "morals are absolute" You: "no, because lots of people argue about it" So, if lots of people argued about whether 1+1=2, does that make it false? Reality isn't consensus based. Plus, disagreeing that morality is objective is incoherent. If it isn't objective, then what's wrong with stating that it is objective?
      - qbit 17y ago
        Morality is not subjective? Can you explain how one determines, in an objective way, whether or not an act is moral? Is there a fundamental theorem of morality that I am unaware of?
        jobeirne 17y ago
        Easy: if an act does not impose force, threat, or fraud, it is moral.
shiranaihito 17y ago
There's that word again: steal..

froo 17y ago

Actually supporting the pirating of content isn't my position. My position is that producers/distributors of content crying foul when they're not providing an alternative service that comes close to other non-legal methods seems a bit pathetic. I'm more than happy to pay them for that content, they just need to be able to make it easy, convenient, available and affordable for the consumer. Right now they're pretty much failing on all four points. EDIT - glad you edited your comment after I replied, so allow me to reply to that too. Oh man, this is just perfect. Welcome to our future, ladies and gentlemen. This isn't the future, this is the present, and this IS something that they can change. Unfortunately, they just don't have the balls to do so.

jobeirne 17y ago
Granted, I'm with you there; however, just because something isn't readily available does not provide moral justification for its theft.
- froo 17y ago
  Well that depends on your moral subset, it's an entirely subjective matter. You have a group of film producers that glorify theft, violence, murder and other heinous acts (many of which are morally questionable) in their films for the "entertainment" of the end users. Do you really think consumers are particularly thinking about content producers copyright when they're getting images of decapitation and bloodshed force fed to them? Or to use their own campaigns against them - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmZm8vNHBSU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmZm8vNHBSU "you wouldn't steal a car" - no, but stealing 50 (aka, gone in sixty seconds) is ok. In fact, Hollywood frames the car thief's actions as a noble thing. Personally, I don't think people should pirate stuff (even though it's been happening for longer than the internet has been readily available), but the Pandora's box HAS been opened - it's out there now and we're only seeing filesharing becoming more widespread. Rather than fighting a losing battle, they should instead focus on providing a viable alternative. Instead of trying to stop those consumers who will never pay for content, why not make it stupidly easy for those who will to do so. The music industry caught on, unfortunately the Film/TV industry's ships are still sinking.
  - jobeirne 17y ago
    Morality is not subjective. There is wrong and there is right. Stealing the toils of someone else is wrong. Your argument is still nonsensical; just because Hollywood glorifies theft (which of course they would; it's the allure of the rebel mentality) doesn't make it rational or acceptable. You bless weakness and the rationalization of cowardice.
    - rms 17y ago
      >Morality is not subjective. You make a fact-like statement for what is actually one of the most debated arguments in philosophical history. I disagree, morality is subjective. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_relativism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_relativism
      - jobeirne 17y ago
        Moral relativism is to disavow the accumulation of any generalizable logic during humanity's stay. This is trendy and foolish.
      - yters 17y ago
        And here you make one of the same lame moral relativist fallacies to back up your point. Parent: "morals are absolute" You: "no, because lots of people argue about it" So, if lots of people argued about whether 1+1=2, does that make it false? Reality isn't consensus based. Plus, disagreeing that morality is objective is incoherent. If it isn't objective, then what's wrong with stating that it is objective?
    - qbit 17y ago
      Morality is not subjective? Can you explain how one determines, in an objective way, whether or not an act is moral? Is there a fundamental theorem of morality that I am unaware of?
      - jobeirne 17y ago
        Easy: if an act does not impose force, threat, or fraud, it is moral.

shiranaihito 17y ago

There's that word again: steal..