6 ms·

> You don't get Bob's phone number on sign-up? Oh come on, that's a weak excuse. You have his name, email address, and Google. You an almost certainly locate mo

by Zikes 14y ago

> You don't get Bob's phone number on sign-up? Oh come on, that's a weak excuse. You have his name, email address, and Google. You an almost certainly locate most customers in this circumstance if you cared to. I wouldn't mind at all if I received such communication via any means I had provided to a business, but I'd be fairly upset if Random Startup B - whose service I demoed for a month and ultimately decided against - suddenly called me on a number I never gave them after I had already decided not to do any further business with them. An email asking for a phone number would be perfectly acceptable. It would positively affect my opinion of the company and could go some distance towards gaining me back as a customer, but calling me on a number I never gave would be a pretty significant final nail in that coffin.

dpcx 14y ago
I think this is directed towards paying clients who are cancelling. Not to someone who demo'd an app.
- Zikes 14y ago
  I should clarify, sometimes I'll pay for a month of a service and consider that a demo/trial.
simonswords82 14y ago
You're sold to on a daily basis by people who you've never had the faintest communication with... Therefore, if an app owner genuinely felt that his app was going to fix your problem, and you have displayed an interest in having your problem fixed by signing up to his app, why wouldn't you want the app owner to understand more about why his app didn't work for you? Hypothetically let's say that the 5 minute conversation he had with you then led to a change to the app that actually solved your headache - would that make the phone call acceptable? I completely understand that we all hate cold calls, me included, I'm just trying to understand why you would be so upset.
- Zikes 14y ago
  I'm personally rather sensitive to unsolicited phone calls because they are both interruptive and unexpected. There are only a few windows in my day when I would be interested in talking to someone on the phone, and if I need to communicate with someone outside of those windows of availability I generally need to take some special actions to make myself available. I have made it a point to put myself on the national Do Not Call registry, so I know that any phone calls I would receive during the day are generally important enough to justify the interruption and I will try to answer rather than let it go to voicemail. You know that junk mail you'll get sometimes that has no sender information, but is made to look in some way important or personal? Maybe it looks like a bill, or it's in a greeting card envelope. So you have to open it up to find out what's in there, and lo and behold it's an offer for 50% off six months of DirecTV and three months of free HBO to boot. Maybe it's just me, but that's the sort of thing that drives me crazy, and I look at those sorts of phone calls the same way.
  - msrpotus 14y ago
    So then just don't answer the phone.
    - snowwrestler 14y ago
      Why is this being downvoted? If it's important that you not be interrupted by the phone, there are a variety of easy ways to make the phone not interrupt you. - Unplug it/turn it off - set to silent and turn off vibrate - "Do Not Disturb" setting - "Send all calls to voicemail" - etc.
      - dangrossman 14y ago
        Because he's replying to someone that explained, explicitly, why he answers the phone even when he doesn't want to be interrupted.
        snowwrestler 14y ago
patio11 14y ago
This is feedback which, candidly, you just won't hear that often when you call up office manager Mary at Happy Teeth Dental at the landline number (distributed to several hundred thousand people) which routes to a box on Mary's desk that she is, quite literally, employed to answer. Mary can authorize purchases of thousands of dollars of software. In addition to not being offended by phone calls (Mary is quite good with cutting them short, politely, if she doesn't want to continue them -- c.f. this is her job), Mary can give you very useful and immediately actionable feedback on them, such as "We couldn't use your application because it doesn't work on the doctor's iPad and that's the only screen he can access in the back of the office." You want to hear that even if you have 0% chance of ever getting a penny from Mary. If one hypothetically is mortally terrified of sounding like a salesman, you could preface the call with "I don't want your money since $SOFTWARE wasn't right for you, but if you have two minutes, I'd like to hear what went wrong so I can fix it and help our other customers."
- Zikes 14y ago
  I would say there's a significant difference in this scenario between calling a customer company and a customer individual. Your article painted the picture of calling an individual named "Bob", not "the receptionist of Bob's Law LLC". I think the practice would be perfectly acceptable in the latter case.
  - tptacek 14y ago
    The reality is that most people who pay real money for software and computer services don't think this way. They hate cold calls from salespeople, sure, but a human call from someone who actually wants to hear what they think is so rare that you'll stand out in the opposite way you're suggesting. I'd like to gingerly suggest that you carefully reconsider any advice you get on a message board about the propriety of directly contacting customers and prospects. Message board nerds like us are terrible at evaluating these situations, and it really holds us back.
    - DanielBMarkham 14y ago
tlogan 14y ago
I hate calling people like that (as all developers), but nice follow up call does wonders. Much more than follow up email. Not everybody is offended (actually very rarely). Also a lot of your potential customers are probably doing their business mainly over a phone.
- nthj 14y ago
  > I hate calling people like that (as all developers) My assistant loves doing stuff like this, and paying her $MUCH_LOWER_THAN_MY_BILLABLE_RATE to save me time is a no brainer. (patio11 will be along shortly to encourage me to switch to weekly rates to avoid this scenario entirely, but yeah.) Calling up prospects to get their feedback on a product idea and chatting for 10 minutes, sending emails saying "hey, thanks for meeting with us today! We're especially excited about X and you can expect to from from us next week about Y", gently nudging clients about overdue invoices, etc. There's an upfront investment, but then you are able to focus on more higher-level stuff looking forward.
  - aalbertson 14y ago
    I agree with this, My wife has worked at a couple companies in billing a/r and specifically has encouraged the bosses to let her make collections type calls just to find out what's up. more often than not, she was able to not only get lots of positive information, but a significant return on past due invoices and whatnot, thereby justifying her employment. There were often cases of "oh, I didn't realize I had an invoice" or "oh, I moved and it must have gotten lost, here's my CC number to make the payment" etc... Oh and for the record, she has had instances where she had to track someone down via googley means because their cell changed, or business address changed, etc... and she was never reprimanded for "How did you get my number?!?!?" Usually they were grateful. Granted not always ;)
brc 14y ago
Sounds suspiciously like 'I don't like people phoning me. I don't like phoning people. I don't want to do this'. And that's fine, but just be aware that you're leaving money and customers on the table.
terrellm 14y ago
I sell a SaaS product with an average price of around $18/month. We (my wife and I) aren't afraid to pick up the phone and call someone... even if it means finding their phone number on a website or online phone book. The typical account expired / billing problem call is usually along the lines of the customer saying something like "I got your emails and have been meaning to get my billing info updated... can you help me with that now?". Customer saved, churn rate decreased, customer lifetime value increased. The occasional cancellation request call often starts with us saying "I understand you had some questions about [our product]. How can I help you?". Next, the customer says "I like your product but it [was too expensive / did not have feature X / seemed hard to use] and I want to cancel." We always agree to honor the request but also add a "well did you know...". Our save rate is over 75%. Again customer saved, churn rate decreased, customer lifetime value increased. If a customer took the time to sign up for your product, try it out, and maybe even give you money... they recognize they have a problem that needs solving. Sometimes a personal call can be a great way to help a customer find a solution to their problem. I can't recall the last time we had someone be anything but appreciative when we called them. The world moves so fast nowadays and life gets in the way, so people can easily become distracted. A little personal touch can sometimes go a long way.

by Zikes 14y ago

dpcx 14y ago

I think this is directed towards paying clients who are cancelling. Not to someone who demo'd an app.

Zikes 14y ago
I should clarify, sometimes I'll pay for a month of a service and consider that a demo/trial.

simonswords82 14y ago

You're sold to on a daily basis by people who you've never had the faintest communication with... Therefore, if an app owner genuinely felt that his app was going to fix your problem, and you have displayed an interest in having your problem fixed by signing up to his app, why wouldn't you want the app owner to understand more about why his app didn't work for you? Hypothetically let's say that the 5 minute conversation he had with you then led to a change to the app that actually solved your headache - would that make the phone call acceptable? I completely understand that we all hate cold calls, me included, I'm just trying to understand why you would be so upset.

Zikes 14y ago
I'm personally rather sensitive to unsolicited phone calls because they are both interruptive and unexpected. There are only a few windows in my day when I would be interested in talking to someone on the phone, and if I need to communicate with someone outside of those windows of availability I generally need to take some special actions to make myself available. I have made it a point to put myself on the national Do Not Call registry, so I know that any phone calls I would receive during the day are generally important enough to justify the interruption and I will try to answer rather than let it go to voicemail. You know that junk mail you'll get sometimes that has no sender information, but is made to look in some way important or personal? Maybe it looks like a bill, or it's in a greeting card envelope. So you have to open it up to find out what's in there, and lo and behold it's an offer for 50% off six months of DirecTV and three months of free HBO to boot. Maybe it's just me, but that's the sort of thing that drives me crazy, and I look at those sorts of phone calls the same way.
- msrpotus 14y ago
  So then just don't answer the phone.
  - snowwrestler 14y ago
    Why is this being downvoted? If it's important that you not be interrupted by the phone, there are a variety of easy ways to make the phone not interrupt you. - Unplug it/turn it off - set to silent and turn off vibrate - "Do Not Disturb" setting - "Send all calls to voicemail" - etc.
    - dangrossman 14y ago
      Because he's replying to someone that explained, explicitly, why he answers the phone even when he doesn't want to be interrupted.
      - snowwrestler 14y ago

patio11 14y ago

This is feedback which, candidly, you just won't hear that often when you call up office manager Mary at Happy Teeth Dental at the landline number (distributed to several hundred thousand people) which routes to a box on Mary's desk that she is, quite literally, employed to answer. Mary can authorize purchases of thousands of dollars of software. In addition to not being offended by phone calls (Mary is quite good with cutting them short, politely, if she doesn't want to continue them -- c.f. this is her job), Mary can give you very useful and immediately actionable feedback on them, such as "We couldn't use your application because it doesn't work on the doctor's iPad and that's the only screen he can access in the back of the office." You want to hear that even if you have 0% chance of ever getting a penny from Mary. If one hypothetically is mortally terrified of sounding like a salesman, you could preface the call with "I don't want your money since $SOFTWARE wasn't right for you, but if you have two minutes, I'd like to hear what went wrong so I can fix it and help our other customers."

Zikes 14y ago
I would say there's a significant difference in this scenario between calling a customer company and a customer individual. Your article painted the picture of calling an individual named "Bob", not "the receptionist of Bob's Law LLC". I think the practice would be perfectly acceptable in the latter case.
- tptacek 14y ago
  The reality is that most people who pay real money for software and computer services don't think this way. They hate cold calls from salespeople, sure, but a human call from someone who actually wants to hear what they think is so rare that you'll stand out in the opposite way you're suggesting. I'd like to gingerly suggest that you carefully reconsider any advice you get on a message board about the propriety of directly contacting customers and prospects. Message board nerds like us are terrible at evaluating these situations, and it really holds us back.
  - DanielBMarkham 14y ago

tlogan 14y ago

I hate calling people like that (as all developers), but nice follow up call does wonders. Much more than follow up email. Not everybody is offended (actually very rarely). Also a lot of your potential customers are probably doing their business mainly over a phone.

nthj 14y ago
> I hate calling people like that (as all developers) My assistant loves doing stuff like this, and paying her $MUCH_LOWER_THAN_MY_BILLABLE_RATE to save me time is a no brainer. (patio11 will be along shortly to encourage me to switch to weekly rates to avoid this scenario entirely, but yeah.) Calling up prospects to get their feedback on a product idea and chatting for 10 minutes, sending emails saying "hey, thanks for meeting with us today! We're especially excited about X and you can expect to from from us next week about Y", gently nudging clients about overdue invoices, etc. There's an upfront investment, but then you are able to focus on more higher-level stuff looking forward.
- aalbertson 14y ago
  I agree with this, My wife has worked at a couple companies in billing a/r and specifically has encouraged the bosses to let her make collections type calls just to find out what's up. more often than not, she was able to not only get lots of positive information, but a significant return on past due invoices and whatnot, thereby justifying her employment. There were often cases of "oh, I didn't realize I had an invoice" or "oh, I moved and it must have gotten lost, here's my CC number to make the payment" etc... Oh and for the record, she has had instances where she had to track someone down via googley means because their cell changed, or business address changed, etc... and she was never reprimanded for "How did you get my number?!?!?" Usually they were grateful. Granted not always ;)

brc 14y ago

Sounds suspiciously like 'I don't like people phoning me. I don't like phoning people. I don't want to do this'. And that's fine, but just be aware that you're leaving money and customers on the table.

terrellm 14y ago

I sell a SaaS product with an average price of around $18/month. We (my wife and I) aren't afraid to pick up the phone and call someone... even if it means finding their phone number on a website or online phone book. The typical account expired / billing problem call is usually along the lines of the customer saying something like "I got your emails and have been meaning to get my billing info updated... can you help me with that now?". Customer saved, churn rate decreased, customer lifetime value increased. The occasional cancellation request call often starts with us saying "I understand you had some questions about [our product]. How can I help you?". Next, the customer says "I like your product but it [was too expensive / did not have feature X / seemed hard to use] and I want to cancel." We always agree to honor the request but also add a "well did you know...". Our save rate is over 75%. Again customer saved, churn rate decreased, customer lifetime value increased. If a customer took the time to sign up for your product, try it out, and maybe even give you money... they recognize they have a problem that needs solving. Sometimes a personal call can be a great way to help a customer find a solution to their problem. I can't recall the last time we had someone be anything but appreciative when we called them. The world moves so fast nowadays and life gets in the way, so people can easily become distracted. A little personal touch can sometimes go a long way.