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"14,000 deaths is also considerably more than "a handful"." It is also considerably less than the number of automobile deaths per year -- less than half, in fa

"14,000 deaths is also considerably more than "a handful"." It is also considerably less than the number of automobile deaths per year -- less than half, in fact. "Gun deaths in UK in 2007 totalled 51. So yes, I do feel less scared in the UK than I do in USA." The murder rate is lower in the UK for all weapons, so you are right to feel safer there.

jlgreco 13y ago
Eh, if you are not a common criminal or associate with common criminals, then the chances that you will be shot by anyone but yourself are not really worth considering, even with the dramatically higher gun death rate in the US. While I would be safer in the UK I wouldn't say that I would feel more safe because that would imply that I could feel more safe about my prospects of being killed by a gun than I do right now. That meter is already pegged to zero.
wtallis 13y ago
Comparing gun deaths with automobile deaths to show that gun deaths aren't that big of a problem is silly. Automobile deaths are caused by and counterbalanced by the extreme usefulness of cars, where guns are mostly just for sport. So gun deaths can be easily reduced by reducing the number of guns, and the side-effects would be very minor compared to taking the naive way of reducing automobile deaths. If your goal is to reduce death rates, you have to take into account not just the death rate, but how easy it is to change that death rate.
- hga 13y ago
  At this point, guns in the US are mainly "used" for self-defense; hunting has gotten to be a very low percentage, between 14-17% from what I've read in the last 2 years. And guns are used about 2.25 million times a year in self-defense, which I consider to meet the standard of "extreme usefulness". But as long as we're talking automobiles, the absolute number of fatal gun accidents per year is around 600 (down a quarter during the same period the US population and number of guns owner increased by ~50%). The early estimate for 2012 car accident fatalities is 34,080 (http://www.nhtsa.gov/NCSA http://www.nhtsa.gov/NCSA). Guns turn out to be a lot easier to use safely.
  - wtallis 13y ago
    All the gun owners I know do almost exclusively range/target shooting, a category you seem to have ignored. And you also don't seem to have at all tried to normalize for the amount of time spent using a car versus using a gun. Are you even trying to make a valid point?
    - hga 13y ago
      And I'm the only guy who likes to target shoot that I know (now, haven't done it in a long while). I didn't ignore it; one of my sources, which I now see reading it is useless/I misread the headline, was a 1 to 5 ratio of hunters to gun owners, using a fairly low estimate for the latter (about 3/4th of the estimate I use; we only have hard numbers on hunters because they have to buy licenses). Many of those 5 could be target shooters ... but how many of them have them exclusively for target shooting? Ditto guns, e.g. look at Remington's hunting optimized R-15 and R-25 versions of the AR-15 and AR-10; I know one person who bought one because its also very good for self-defense. Heck, VP Joe Biden shoots clay pigeons with a double-barreled shotgun and is full of advice about how it is great for self-defense (note, don't follow much of it unless you want to end up in jail).

jlgreco 13y ago

Eh, if you are not a common criminal or associate with common criminals, then the chances that you will be shot by anyone but yourself are not really worth considering, even with the dramatically higher gun death rate in the US. While I would be safer in the UK I wouldn't say that I would feel more safe because that would imply that I could feel more safe about my prospects of being killed by a gun than I do right now. That meter is already pegged to zero.

wtallis 13y ago

Comparing gun deaths with automobile deaths to show that gun deaths aren't that big of a problem is silly. Automobile deaths are caused by and counterbalanced by the extreme usefulness of cars, where guns are mostly just for sport. So gun deaths can be easily reduced by reducing the number of guns, and the side-effects would be very minor compared to taking the naive way of reducing automobile deaths. If your goal is to reduce death rates, you have to take into account not just the death rate, but how easy it is to change that death rate.

hga 13y ago
At this point, guns in the US are mainly "used" for self-defense; hunting has gotten to be a very low percentage, between 14-17% from what I've read in the last 2 years. And guns are used about 2.25 million times a year in self-defense, which I consider to meet the standard of "extreme usefulness". But as long as we're talking automobiles, the absolute number of fatal gun accidents per year is around 600 (down a quarter during the same period the US population and number of guns owner increased by ~50%). The early estimate for 2012 car accident fatalities is 34,080 (http://www.nhtsa.gov/NCSA http://www.nhtsa.gov/NCSA). Guns turn out to be a lot easier to use safely.
- wtallis 13y ago
  All the gun owners I know do almost exclusively range/target shooting, a category you seem to have ignored. And you also don't seem to have at all tried to normalize for the amount of time spent using a car versus using a gun. Are you even trying to make a valid point?
  - hga 13y ago
    And I'm the only guy who likes to target shoot that I know (now, haven't done it in a long while). I didn't ignore it; one of my sources, which I now see reading it is useless/I misread the headline, was a 1 to 5 ratio of hunters to gun owners, using a fairly low estimate for the latter (about 3/4th of the estimate I use; we only have hard numbers on hunters because they have to buy licenses). Many of those 5 could be target shooters ... but how many of them have them exclusively for target shooting? Ditto guns, e.g. look at Remington's hunting optimized R-15 and R-25 versions of the AR-15 and AR-10; I know one person who bought one because its also very good for self-defense. Heck, VP Joe Biden shoots clay pigeons with a double-barreled shotgun and is full of advice about how it is great for self-defense (note, don't follow much of it unless you want to end up in jail).