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That gun crime has been falling does not mean that proliferation of guns is a neutral proposition, it only means that other trends have been stronger. More han

That gun crime has been falling does not mean that proliferation of guns is a neutral proposition, it only means that other trends have been stronger. More handguns = more dead people, period. The only people rooting for a society awash in easily obtainable handguns are criminals and delusional libertarians with adolescent Minute Man fantasies.

Zikes 13y ago
More handguns = more handguns, period. Like I said before, violent crime has been falling steadily for the past 20 years despite the rise in availability of handguns. This is in direct conflict with your assertion that more handguns = more dead people. It is a more delusional viewpoint in my opinion to think that simply reducing the availability of weapons would eliminate the criminal impulses to use them.
- rollo_tommasi 13y ago
  Zikes, let's do a simple observational experiment. Compare the rates of violent death in countries with few guns to those in countries with lots of guns. Get back to me with your next keen insight on how the number of guns in a society is a just a meaningless number that doesn't really affect anything at all.
  - koenigdavidmj 13y ago
    Look at knife crime rates in the UK.
    - mikeyouse 13y ago
      The murder rate in the UK is 1.2 / 100k, it's literally 4x higher in the US. You've probably read that the UK is significantly more violent than the US, but the difference comes entirely from different categorizations of crime. For instance, UK violent crime stats as typically reported include such things as harassment, 'causing public fear, alarm, or distress', or 'possession of an article with a blade or point'. Depending on how judicious you are with the categories, the UK is either safer than the US or slightly more violent, but it's very close. Combine that with 1/4 the murder rate, and I think it's clear which is performing better.
  - cobrausn 13y ago
    Compare the rates of violent deaths in those countries when they did have guns available to ours, and you will find out that America is just more violent period, which nobody should find surprising. EDIT: But in better news, we are getting less violent, which is good.
  - GVIrish 13y ago
    As of 2007 Switzerland has the 3rd highest gun ownership rate in the world, but is number 51 on the gun homicide rate list, with a gun homicide rate of .52 per 100k. Meanwhile, Mexico's gun ownership rate is one third that of Switzerland, yet their gun homicide rate is 20 times as high (10 per 100k). Mexico's gun homicide rate is actually twice that of the United States. Note that Mexico's gun laws are considerably more strict than those in the US. Another example is Russia. Their overal murder rate is twice that of the United States even though they have strict gun laws and a gun ownership rate that is 10% that of the US (8.9 per 100k vs 88.9 per 100). One could look at a country like the UK where there are strict gun laws and far less gun crime in the US. However, gun crime was never as high in the UK as it was in the US, even when the UK had gun laws as loose as those in the US. Long story short, crime is driven largely by socioeconomic factors, the criminal justice system, and culture. The availability of guns plays a part, but not a large part. Otherwise Wyoming would have the highest murder rate in the US, as it has the highest gun ownership rate.
    - hga 13y ago
      "Note that Mexico's gun laws are considerably more strict than those in the US." Mexico has one legal gun store in a country of 115 million people: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/28/AR2010122803644.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12...
deleted 13y ago
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Zikes 13y ago

More handguns = more handguns, period. Like I said before, violent crime has been falling steadily for the past 20 years despite the rise in availability of handguns. This is in direct conflict with your assertion that more handguns = more dead people. It is a more delusional viewpoint in my opinion to think that simply reducing the availability of weapons would eliminate the criminal impulses to use them.

rollo_tommasi 13y ago
Zikes, let's do a simple observational experiment. Compare the rates of violent death in countries with few guns to those in countries with lots of guns. Get back to me with your next keen insight on how the number of guns in a society is a just a meaningless number that doesn't really affect anything at all.
- koenigdavidmj 13y ago
  Look at knife crime rates in the UK.
  - mikeyouse 13y ago
    The murder rate in the UK is 1.2 / 100k, it's literally 4x higher in the US. You've probably read that the UK is significantly more violent than the US, but the difference comes entirely from different categorizations of crime. For instance, UK violent crime stats as typically reported include such things as harassment, 'causing public fear, alarm, or distress', or 'possession of an article with a blade or point'. Depending on how judicious you are with the categories, the UK is either safer than the US or slightly more violent, but it's very close. Combine that with 1/4 the murder rate, and I think it's clear which is performing better.
- cobrausn 13y ago
  Compare the rates of violent deaths in those countries when they did have guns available to ours, and you will find out that America is just more violent period, which nobody should find surprising. EDIT: But in better news, we are getting less violent, which is good.
- GVIrish 13y ago
  As of 2007 Switzerland has the 3rd highest gun ownership rate in the world, but is number 51 on the gun homicide rate list, with a gun homicide rate of .52 per 100k. Meanwhile, Mexico's gun ownership rate is one third that of Switzerland, yet their gun homicide rate is 20 times as high (10 per 100k). Mexico's gun homicide rate is actually twice that of the United States. Note that Mexico's gun laws are considerably more strict than those in the US. Another example is Russia. Their overal murder rate is twice that of the United States even though they have strict gun laws and a gun ownership rate that is 10% that of the US (8.9 per 100k vs 88.9 per 100). One could look at a country like the UK where there are strict gun laws and far less gun crime in the US. However, gun crime was never as high in the UK as it was in the US, even when the UK had gun laws as loose as those in the US. Long story short, crime is driven largely by socioeconomic factors, the criminal justice system, and culture. The availability of guns plays a part, but not a large part. Otherwise Wyoming would have the highest murder rate in the US, as it has the highest gun ownership rate.
  - hga 13y ago
    "Note that Mexico's gun laws are considerably more strict than those in the US." Mexico has one legal gun store in a country of 115 million people: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/28/AR2010122803644.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12...

deleted 13y ago

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