4 ms·

The idea that everyone has time to do 'X' if they only wanted it bad enough is complete BS. For people that work two jobs, have a family to take care of, commu

by adeaver 13y ago

The idea that everyone has time to do 'X' if they only wanted it bad enough is complete BS. For people that work two jobs, have a family to take care of, commute several hours, have a sick spouse and sleep there is no more time in the day. No matter how badly you want it. Unless you or the author of Rework know of a magical formula to make the day longer than 24 hours or how to operate on little to no sleep.

ctdonath 13y ago
If surviving on that arrangement doesn't work, change the arrangement. Move somewhere with a cheaper standard of living. Reduce expenses to where one spouse can stay home. Find another job closer. Unplug the TV already. Seriously. Yes, if you want it badly enough you'll do it. I moved 1000 miles, changed jobs twice, worked 2 jobs at once for years, have a family to care for, cut the commute from 2 hours to 15 minutes, and operate on limited sleep. TV? about 4 hours a month. Every time I thought "I can't do this but I have to" I found a way. Now I work a dream job at a startup, support a family of 4, and live in a nice area. Yes, we know of the "magical formula": use your brain and make it happen; you're the only one stopping you.
- adeaver 13y ago
  I'm not sure if you are just naive or intentionally contrary. Please, explain to me how a family that can barely afford rent and meals can move 1000 miles away and find work. It's not really that easy to find a new job in a town you've never been to. Or a couple in which one is handicapped or seriously ill can 'change the arrangement' You made your situation better. Congratulations. I mean that. But assuming everyone can do it because you did is borderline arrogant. There is no silver bullet solution and saying that anyone can do it if they want to bad enough is just stupid and ignorant.
  - ctdonath 13y ago
    Intentionally contrary, as I see a glaring over-application of "poor" and "can't". This country was founded on people having very little walking very long distances to build homesteads from nothing. I'll agree there are some people who truly can't make the changes I indicated; we have a social safety net for them, and I do put in a weekly effort to help them. Most who whine "I can't" can, they just won't. Obviously there are exceptions, and a short aphorism of "you'll do it if you want it bad enough" is not expected to have encyclopedic thoroughness covering those few genuine cases who really, truly, can't; it's directed at the other 99.99% whose only real barriers to success is themselves.
    - adeaver 13y ago
      My point is making declarative statements like "If you want to you can" isn't helping because it feeds into the perception that everyone is just being lazy and not trying hard enough. Because sadly, that is the thought process of a vast majority of people. That poor people are poor because they want to be.
    - king_jester 13y ago
      > This country was founded on people having very little walking very long distances to build homesteads from nothing. You mean all those homesteaders that killed native people and stole their land with the backing the government? > I'll agree there are some people who truly can't make the changes I indicated; we have a social safety net for them, and I do put in a weekly effort to help them. Most who whine "I can't" can, they just won't. The social safety net is far from adequate enough to negate these problems, assuming one is even able to qualify and access those programs. > Obviously there are exceptions, and a short aphorism of "you'll do it if you want it bad enough" is not expected to have encyclopedic thoroughness covering those few genuine cases who really, truly, can't; it's directed at the other 99.99% whose only real barriers to success is themselves. Do you really believe that 99.99% of folks who have a shitty situation just can't muster the effort to change things? Do you really believe that people WANT to live that way? To constantly be uncertain if they are going to be able to work, to be able to get health care, to eat, to have a home, to not face imminent violence? Western society is not organized for the welfare of the people in it and there are social and institutional forces that actively keep people from the things we have been talking about.
  - webbastard 13y ago
    Borrow money from a loan shark, scout a new city alone. This is an option if you're motivated enough.
- namdnay 13y ago
  Do you have a five step plan?
stouset 13y ago
Christ. Everyone in this entire argument sucks. You're trying to yell over each other and nobody can acknowledge that the other guy has a point. There are millions of people in this country who are in a shitty situation and could do better. There are people who could do more to better themselves, but instead dick around on the Internet or watching TV and don't. They make excuses for why they can't do more to better themselves, but at the end they're a victim of their own rationalizations and justifications. There are also people who might get up off the couch and improve their situation, except they simply don't know how to go about it. They've never cooked before, they don't know the first thing about gardening, and they aren't proficient enough with the Internet or learning in general to figure these things out from themselves except by expensive trial-and-error. And finally, there are people who are right and truly fucked. They got stuck in a declining area of the country and there's nobody interested in buying their home at any price. Moving would be prohibitively expensive and disruptive to children and a spouse. They may even have to care for sick family members, completely eliminating the possibility of moving. They have crappy job skills, but are working 30 hours a week to make ends meet and have no time to learn new skills (which might not even be in demand in the area they live). They might live far enough away from job centers that the cost of the commuting farther would cost more than would be gained. The fact that one of these groups exists does not disprove the existence of any other. There are hundreds of millions of people in this country, and they exist in a continuum in virtually every life circumstance one could imagine. To some of them, cbdonath's advice and stance could be absolutely spot-on. To many others, the advice is completely impractical and impossible to achieve. cbdonath's main point seems to be that there are a ton of people who use their crappy situation to rationalize a mindset that keeps them where they are. This is true. Everyone else's point seems to be that there are millions of people in this country who are so far beyond fucked, that no advice is enough to pull them out of the crapfest of a situation they're in. This is also true. So congratulations. Everybody's right. Now stop fighting like children.

by adeaver 13y ago

ctdonath 13y ago

If surviving on that arrangement doesn't work, change the arrangement. Move somewhere with a cheaper standard of living. Reduce expenses to where one spouse can stay home. Find another job closer. Unplug the TV already. Seriously. Yes, if you want it badly enough you'll do it. I moved 1000 miles, changed jobs twice, worked 2 jobs at once for years, have a family to care for, cut the commute from 2 hours to 15 minutes, and operate on limited sleep. TV? about 4 hours a month. Every time I thought "I can't do this but I have to" I found a way. Now I work a dream job at a startup, support a family of 4, and live in a nice area. Yes, we know of the "magical formula": use your brain and make it happen; you're the only one stopping you.

adeaver 13y ago
I'm not sure if you are just naive or intentionally contrary. Please, explain to me how a family that can barely afford rent and meals can move 1000 miles away and find work. It's not really that easy to find a new job in a town you've never been to. Or a couple in which one is handicapped or seriously ill can 'change the arrangement' You made your situation better. Congratulations. I mean that. But assuming everyone can do it because you did is borderline arrogant. There is no silver bullet solution and saying that anyone can do it if they want to bad enough is just stupid and ignorant.
- ctdonath 13y ago
  Intentionally contrary, as I see a glaring over-application of "poor" and "can't". This country was founded on people having very little walking very long distances to build homesteads from nothing. I'll agree there are some people who truly can't make the changes I indicated; we have a social safety net for them, and I do put in a weekly effort to help them. Most who whine "I can't" can, they just won't. Obviously there are exceptions, and a short aphorism of "you'll do it if you want it bad enough" is not expected to have encyclopedic thoroughness covering those few genuine cases who really, truly, can't; it's directed at the other 99.99% whose only real barriers to success is themselves.
  - adeaver 13y ago
    My point is making declarative statements like "If you want to you can" isn't helping because it feeds into the perception that everyone is just being lazy and not trying hard enough. Because sadly, that is the thought process of a vast majority of people. That poor people are poor because they want to be.
  - king_jester 13y ago
    > This country was founded on people having very little walking very long distances to build homesteads from nothing. You mean all those homesteaders that killed native people and stole their land with the backing the government? > I'll agree there are some people who truly can't make the changes I indicated; we have a social safety net for them, and I do put in a weekly effort to help them. Most who whine "I can't" can, they just won't. The social safety net is far from adequate enough to negate these problems, assuming one is even able to qualify and access those programs. > Obviously there are exceptions, and a short aphorism of "you'll do it if you want it bad enough" is not expected to have encyclopedic thoroughness covering those few genuine cases who really, truly, can't; it's directed at the other 99.99% whose only real barriers to success is themselves. Do you really believe that 99.99% of folks who have a shitty situation just can't muster the effort to change things? Do you really believe that people WANT to live that way? To constantly be uncertain if they are going to be able to work, to be able to get health care, to eat, to have a home, to not face imminent violence? Western society is not organized for the welfare of the people in it and there are social and institutional forces that actively keep people from the things we have been talking about.
- webbastard 13y ago
  Borrow money from a loan shark, scout a new city alone. This is an option if you're motivated enough.
namdnay 13y ago
Do you have a five step plan?

stouset 13y ago

Christ. Everyone in this entire argument sucks. You're trying to yell over each other and nobody can acknowledge that the other guy has a point. There are millions of people in this country who are in a shitty situation and could do better. There are people who could do more to better themselves, but instead dick around on the Internet or watching TV and don't. They make excuses for why they can't do more to better themselves, but at the end they're a victim of their own rationalizations and justifications. There are also people who might get up off the couch and improve their situation, except they simply don't know how to go about it. They've never cooked before, they don't know the first thing about gardening, and they aren't proficient enough with the Internet or learning in general to figure these things out from themselves except by expensive trial-and-error. And finally, there are people who are right and truly fucked. They got stuck in a declining area of the country and there's nobody interested in buying their home at any price. Moving would be prohibitively expensive and disruptive to children and a spouse. They may even have to care for sick family members, completely eliminating the possibility of moving. They have crappy job skills, but are working 30 hours a week to make ends meet and have no time to learn new skills (which might not even be in demand in the area they live). They might live far enough away from job centers that the cost of the commuting farther would cost more than would be gained. The fact that one of these groups exists does not disprove the existence of any other. There are hundreds of millions of people in this country, and they exist in a continuum in virtually every life circumstance one could imagine. To some of them, cbdonath's advice and stance could be absolutely spot-on. To many others, the advice is completely impractical and impossible to achieve. cbdonath's main point seems to be that there are a ton of people who use their crappy situation to rationalize a mindset that keeps them where they are. This is true. Everyone else's point seems to be that there are millions of people in this country who are so far beyond fucked, that no advice is enough to pull them out of the crapfest of a situation they're in. This is also true. So congratulations. Everybody's right. Now stop fighting like children.