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I'm still surprised that they use only legs and arms. Intuitively I'd expect some form of curling up into a squat and extending back out to be able to capture

by mtrimpe 13y ago

I'm still surprised that they use only legs and arms. Intuitively I'd expect some form of curling up into a squat and extending back out to be able to capture the most energy from a human body.

_fs 13y ago
True, but if they managed to work this out, I don't think you want to be flying through the air using an anaerobic exercise to keep you aloft. What happens when you are exhausted after 15 squats? Making it aerobic allows for longer flight
- mtrimpe 13y ago
  I never considered that. So essentially once you go fully aerobic which / how many muscles you use isn't that relevant anymore.
Someone 13y ago
I think they want as little variation in energy output as possible (the normal solution, a flywheel, would not be useful here. You would want to keep it light, so you would have to spin it up to insane speed, and that during flight, as doing it before would qualify as an energy storage device). Looking at the photos, I get the impression they try to accomplish that by having the arm stroke 180 degrees out of phase with the leg stroke. I don't think that would be easy to accomplish with added back bending and stretching. Also, I doubt they would get much more power out of extra muscles for 90 seconds. Looking at http://www.agrc.umd.edu/gamera/gamera2/gamera2-human-power.html http://www.agrc.umd.edu/gamera/gamera2/gamera2-human-power.h..., you see that adding arms barely gives extra power after two minutes, presumably because their pilot does not have the anaerobic capacity. Finally and maybe most importantly, this may not be a matter of getting maximal pilot power output. It may be a matter of minimizing jerk at a goven power output instead. The smoother the ride that the pilot manages to make, the lighter they can make the machine.
curveship 13y ago
You mean like rowing? If so, then I think you'd be surprised. Most athletes who compete in both rowing and cycling report that they see higher wattage numbers on the bike than the rowing ergometer. Biomechanics can be funny.
- mtrimpe 13y ago
  Wow. I've never enjoyed being proven wrong this much. Never expected that! The higher wattage numbers that is ...

by mtrimpe 13y ago

I'm still surprised that they use only legs and arms. Intuitively I'd expect some form of curling up into a squat and extending back out to be able to capture the most energy from a human body.

_fs 13y ago

True, but if they managed to work this out, I don't think you want to be flying through the air using an anaerobic exercise to keep you aloft. What happens when you are exhausted after 15 squats? Making it aerobic allows for longer flight

mtrimpe 13y ago
I never considered that. So essentially once you go fully aerobic which / how many muscles you use isn't that relevant anymore.

Someone 13y ago

I think they want as little variation in energy output as possible (the normal solution, a flywheel, would not be useful here. You would want to keep it light, so you would have to spin it up to insane speed, and that during flight, as doing it before would qualify as an energy storage device). Looking at the photos, I get the impression they try to accomplish that by having the arm stroke 180 degrees out of phase with the leg stroke. I don't think that would be easy to accomplish with added back bending and stretching. Also, I doubt they would get much more power out of extra muscles for 90 seconds. Looking at http://www.agrc.umd.edu/gamera/gamera2/gamera2-human-power.html http://www.agrc.umd.edu/gamera/gamera2/gamera2-human-power.h..., you see that adding arms barely gives extra power after two minutes, presumably because their pilot does not have the anaerobic capacity. Finally and maybe most importantly, this may not be a matter of getting maximal pilot power output. It may be a matter of minimizing jerk at a goven power output instead. The smoother the ride that the pilot manages to make, the lighter they can make the machine.

curveship 13y ago

You mean like rowing? If so, then I think you'd be surprised. Most athletes who compete in both rowing and cycling report that they see higher wattage numbers on the bike than the rowing ergometer. Biomechanics can be funny.

mtrimpe 13y ago
Wow. I've never enjoyed being proven wrong this much. Never expected that! The higher wattage numbers that is ...