7 ms·

With Rifle and Bibliography: General Mattis on Professional Reading

104 points by jerryhuang100 13y ago

vanessa98 13y ago
What do you do to continue learning and to continue improving in your craft? Keep building things. That's really the only way I know how to learn something. Reading books doesn't really do anything for me. I have to see something applied in practice, on my own, before I can really internalize something and grow.
- josephkern 13y ago
  The issue at hand, was the General's use of reading as a way to ensure the things he is in charge of building (Marines), do not go to waste. Long in the making, quick in the breaking. > I have to see something applied in practice, on my own, before I can really internalize something and grow. This skill, reading, takes a while to develop. Understanding what is said and not said, and what it means in context takes practice and deliberate thought. Learning while building works well only when your effective materials cost (as in software) is zero.
grumpygremlin 13y ago
Gods of the Copybook Headings.
pasquinelli 13y ago
skimmed it.
jmspring 13y ago
This applies to our own industry. For those of us that have been in it for awhile -- keeping abreast of what is going on, reading about "new paradigms" and how they may just be new incarnations of what we have seen before, continuous learning is key. For those getting started, battle stories can be interesting and provide insight. Don Melton's blog - http://donmelton.com http://donmelton.com JWZ's blog - http://jwz.org http://jwz.org The * at Work series (Coders, Founders, etc.) Usenix archives on the subject of choice Are some that come to mind. Others are there, but it's been a long day and I am a bit burnt. What do others read for their history lessons?
- econner 13y ago
  David Parnas
- stephen 13y ago
  Exactly--I'd love to read more about our industry, but I just can't find the material. It used to be going into Barnes & Noble was amazing, there were so many books I'd find interesting. Not that I by any means have mastered "every single book in B&N tech section", it's just "yet another beginner intro to language XYZ"/etc. isn't fun to read anymore. And so many books (tech and otherwise) have so much fluff, and seem like they could be ~1/4th the size with the same content. (Not true for every book of course.)
notaddicted 13y ago
This is the same Mattis from (fictionalized) Generation Kill: http://youtu.be/fTXzcILPPp8 http://youtu.be/fTXzcILPPp8 .
rkroondotnet 13y ago
The idea that: "By reading, you learn through others’ experiences, generally a better way to do business, especially in our line of work where the consequences of incompetence are so final for young men." Is so utterly important when lives are on the line that it seems difficult to refute, and I'd be interested to see someone try in fact, but let's take that premise, and add to it: "Ultimately, a real understanding of history means that we face NOTHING new under the sun." + "Alex the Great would not be in the least bit perplexed by the enemy that we face right now in Iraq, and our leaders going into this fight do their troops a disservice by not studying (studying, vice just reading) the men who have gone before us." Let's take a jump into the hacker news/YC/Lean Startup milieu and apply the same lesson: You should learn from those who have gone before. Study their decision making processes, study their customers, read whatever you can read to find the people who have done what you are doing. Chances are the business that you are creating (even if it is going to "disrupt" some industry or another) is still dealing with the same issues that have always been issues. It's going to have HR, marketing, leadership, operations and a million other hassles that are similar to those that have come before. Similar because people haven't changed that much. If you are a startup person, working 100 hour weeks and learning by doing, you should still find some time to read and learn from the mistakes and triumphs of those who came before. Don't burn the investors cash relearning the lessons that someone else already learnt, save your runway for iterating on the true unknowns of your problem domain.
guelo 13y ago
Too bad the whole war was an immoral travesty based on lies and at the behest of oil companies and Israeli interests.
- nwj 13y ago
  Many (my self included) agree it was not a war we should have fought. But implying that the reason we went to war was primarily because "oil companies and Israeli interests" wanted us to -- that's just intellectually dishonest. The path into Iraq was so much more complicated than that and simplifying it in such a crude way makes it more likely that we will repeat those past mistakes again in the future.
  - shn 13y ago
    I agree with you. Although what he said is correct, saying in such a crude way unfortunately helps it ridiculed and disqualified easily which leads to the repetition of it. Unfortunately not by mistake but in consequence of poor communication like that which results sheer encouragement of conspirators to try again for another war.
- riggins 13y ago
  at the behest of oil companies I know a lot of people made this claim in the lead up to the Iraq war but I find this claim pretty weak with the benefit of hindsight. While the predictions/criticisms that it would be a protracted struggle that left the country in tatters were pretty much spot on, I think the claims that the US just wanted the oil were wrong.
  - shn 13y ago
    The mistake most make when criticizing US is when they put all the US into one bag. Like any country there are many competing forces in the US. Especially a country like US, big and dominant, those forces are trying pull and bend the public opinion for their own agenda. That said arguing that it was for the oil (in the literal sense) without substantiating it only good for self-debunking. I think it would be known by now if Iraq's oil was really stolen (literally shipped overseas). I do not believe in that. Hegemony is all about controlling others so was the reason of this war. What has US gained can not be described in one sentence, especially if that sentence is just a rant. As much as it gained something she lost a lot as well, especially average American and multiples of it by the poor Iraqi people. Corporations, special interest groups and countries in that region which has deep and dirty ties with the congress (interestingly Iran as well) gained a lot.
logjam 13y ago
"We have been fighting on this planet for 5000 years and we should take advantage of their experience." Lessons in better tactics ain't the most important learning to draw from that reading, General.
- PakG1 13y ago
  If war is a necessary course of action, then it is possibly the most important lesson. War is of course the least desirable course of action. But his job isn't to find peace without war. His job is to do his job (win wars) if called upon. The people responsible for peace are the political leaders. If they fail, they turn to the military. Yes, sometimes they turn to the military without exploring all avenues to peace. Whether or not those are good decisions can be long debated. But do not put the onus for peace on him. Rather, be thankful that he is capable to do his job. The responsibility for peace lays on the shoulders of political leaders and diplomats. Quoting the only line that ever stuck with me from Alien vs. Predator: "Why do you have a gun?" "It's like a condom. I'd rather have it and not need it, than need it but not have it."
  - cerebrum 13y ago
    > If war is a necessary course of action, then it is possibly the most important lesson. I think all wars since WWI were probably unnecessary but they were fought for economic reasons. It was all about money.
    - PakG1 13y ago
      Look at my second paragraph. :)
  - derefr 13y ago
    > Yes, sometimes they turn to the military without exploring all avenues to peace. Whether or not those are good decisions can be long debated. But do not put the onus for peace on him. What about all the military coups throughout history, where a general decided the politico commanding him wasn't a very good leader, and took his place?
jamesaguilar 13y ago
I support reading, but it's far more important to learn how to distinguish truth from fiction than it is to read a lot. Ironically, that's the one thing that it's quite difficult to learn from reading. You can see it easily on this site where there are so many people who can argue eloquently and passionately for diametrically opposed perspectives on an issue. Both sides can't both be right, even though a comment would in isolation be more than enough to convince someone who was not skeptical. If you can't distinguish which pretty words are the true ones, you'll be lead by the nose by the guy who can put his words together best, which isn't necessarily a great idea except if you're trying to learn to write and argue.
- cerebrum 13y ago
  You make an excellent point. Being a member of various forums I have encountered again and again the "clever arguer" who is someone who is able to convince lots of people of his opinion even when he is wrong.
- wwweston 13y ago
  > there are so many people who can argue eloquently and passionately for diametrically opposed perspectives on an issue. Both sides can't both be right It is sometimes true that both sides can't be right -- there certainly formal propositions which are mutually exclusive (a circle can be squared, a circle cannot be squared). Other times, people are arguing in a space where there's tension between multiple true principles (which programming language is best for your new project -- the more expressive/flexible/typesafe one you don't know? or the one you're already familiar with?).
- Swizec 13y ago
  > Both sides can't both be right This isn't mathematics, this is the real world. Here issues aren't two-sided, they are dodecahedrons and all sides are right.
  - gadders 13y ago
    Or even one side could be right, but it's unknowable/unprovable.
aklemm 13y ago
Reading is fundamental! Outside history and military, another profound effect reading has is that fiction can actually increase empathy in the real world: http://www.yorku.ca/mar/Mar%20et%20al%202009_reading%20fiction%20and%20empathy.pdf http://www.yorku.ca/mar/Mar%20et%20al%202009_reading%20ficti... Between that and the general's words, how can one not spend any spare minute reading?
- mc-lovin 13y ago
  "In order to rule out the role of personality, we first identified Openness as the most consistent correlate. This trait was then statistically controlled for, along with two other important individual differences: the tendency to be drawn into stories and gender. Even after accounting for these variables, fiction exposure still predicted performance on an empathy task." This methodology is fundamentally flawed. There is no technical fix to get around the fact that you cannot distinguish between reading causing more empathy, or greater empathy causing more reading. They are trying to measure the relationship between personality traits and reading, and then claiming to control for personality!
  - aklemm 13y ago
    I'll let you take that up with the authors. Until it's settled, we can all just reflect on whether reading stories has helped us, personally, better understand and empathize with others.
    - mc-lovin 13y ago
      "I'll let you take that up with the authors." That's a fairly flippant way to deal with my criticism. If you post a study here, it's fine if you haven't read it, but you shouldn't pretend that anything that's been published is infallible.
      - aklemm 13y ago
        It's flippant, but also completely honest. If mc-lovin of HN is correct that this study should be ignored and possibly retracted, then he should email the authors. Telling me about it does no good. Your original comment may be 100% accurate, but it really doesn't take away from the insight the study talks about. Your comment would have been more useful if you had a counter-argument about reading and empathy, but you only offered an unfounded criticism. Really.
will_work4tears 13y ago
He thinks we've only been fighting for 5000 years? Is he a Young Earth Creationist or something?
- PakG1 13y ago
  I think he is talking from the perspective of civilizations waging organized war. It would make the most sense, given who he is and the lessons he hopes to learn. Let's not put thoughts into his mind or words into his mouth that aren't necessarily there.
Turing_Machine 13y ago
Is one of his tips "make sure to use a tiny, marginally-legible sans-serif font in a layout that wastes 2/3 of the screen?"

104 points by jerryhuang100 13y ago

What do you do to continue learning and to continue improving in your craft? Keep building things. That's really the only way I know how to learn something. Reading books doesn't really do anything for me. I have to see something applied in practice, on my own, before I can really internalize something and grow.

josephkern 13y ago
The issue at hand, was the General's use of reading as a way to ensure the things he is in charge of building (Marines), do not go to waste. Long in the making, quick in the breaking. > I have to see something applied in practice, on my own, before I can really internalize something and grow. This skill, reading, takes a while to develop. Understanding what is said and not said, and what it means in context takes practice and deliberate thought. Learning while building works well only when your effective materials cost (as in software) is zero.

grumpygremlin 13y ago

Gods of the Copybook Headings.

pasquinelli 13y ago

skimmed it.

jmspring 13y ago

This applies to our own industry. For those of us that have been in it for awhile -- keeping abreast of what is going on, reading about "new paradigms" and how they may just be new incarnations of what we have seen before, continuous learning is key. For those getting started, battle stories can be interesting and provide insight. Don Melton's blog - http://donmelton.com http://donmelton.com JWZ's blog - http://jwz.org http://jwz.org The * at Work series (Coders, Founders, etc.) Usenix archives on the subject of choice Are some that come to mind. Others are there, but it's been a long day and I am a bit burnt. What do others read for their history lessons?

econner 13y ago
David Parnas
stephen 13y ago
Exactly--I'd love to read more about our industry, but I just can't find the material. It used to be going into Barnes & Noble was amazing, there were so many books I'd find interesting. Not that I by any means have mastered "every single book in B&N tech section", it's just "yet another beginner intro to language XYZ"/etc. isn't fun to read anymore. And so many books (tech and otherwise) have so much fluff, and seem like they could be ~1/4th the size with the same content. (Not true for every book of course.)

notaddicted 13y ago

This is the same Mattis from (fictionalized) Generation Kill: http://youtu.be/fTXzcILPPp8 http://youtu.be/fTXzcILPPp8 .

rkroondotnet 13y ago

The idea that: "By reading, you learn through others’ experiences, generally a better way to do business, especially in our line of work where the consequences of incompetence are so final for young men." Is so utterly important when lives are on the line that it seems difficult to refute, and I'd be interested to see someone try in fact, but let's take that premise, and add to it: "Ultimately, a real understanding of history means that we face NOTHING new under the sun." + "Alex the Great would not be in the least bit perplexed by the enemy that we face right now in Iraq, and our leaders going into this fight do their troops a disservice by not studying (studying, vice just reading) the men who have gone before us." Let's take a jump into the hacker news/YC/Lean Startup milieu and apply the same lesson: You should learn from those who have gone before. Study their decision making processes, study their customers, read whatever you can read to find the people who have done what you are doing. Chances are the business that you are creating (even if it is going to "disrupt" some industry or another) is still dealing with the same issues that have always been issues. It's going to have HR, marketing, leadership, operations and a million other hassles that are similar to those that have come before. Similar because people haven't changed that much. If you are a startup person, working 100 hour weeks and learning by doing, you should still find some time to read and learn from the mistakes and triumphs of those who came before. Don't burn the investors cash relearning the lessons that someone else already learnt, save your runway for iterating on the true unknowns of your problem domain.

guelo 13y ago

Too bad the whole war was an immoral travesty based on lies and at the behest of oil companies and Israeli interests.

nwj 13y ago
Many (my self included) agree it was not a war we should have fought. But implying that the reason we went to war was primarily because "oil companies and Israeli interests" wanted us to -- that's just intellectually dishonest. The path into Iraq was so much more complicated than that and simplifying it in such a crude way makes it more likely that we will repeat those past mistakes again in the future.
- shn 13y ago
  I agree with you. Although what he said is correct, saying in such a crude way unfortunately helps it ridiculed and disqualified easily which leads to the repetition of it. Unfortunately not by mistake but in consequence of poor communication like that which results sheer encouragement of conspirators to try again for another war.
riggins 13y ago
at the behest of oil companies I know a lot of people made this claim in the lead up to the Iraq war but I find this claim pretty weak with the benefit of hindsight. While the predictions/criticisms that it would be a protracted struggle that left the country in tatters were pretty much spot on, I think the claims that the US just wanted the oil were wrong.
- shn 13y ago
  The mistake most make when criticizing US is when they put all the US into one bag. Like any country there are many competing forces in the US. Especially a country like US, big and dominant, those forces are trying pull and bend the public opinion for their own agenda. That said arguing that it was for the oil (in the literal sense) without substantiating it only good for self-debunking. I think it would be known by now if Iraq's oil was really stolen (literally shipped overseas). I do not believe in that. Hegemony is all about controlling others so was the reason of this war. What has US gained can not be described in one sentence, especially if that sentence is just a rant. As much as it gained something she lost a lot as well, especially average American and multiples of it by the poor Iraqi people. Corporations, special interest groups and countries in that region which has deep and dirty ties with the congress (interestingly Iran as well) gained a lot.

logjam 13y ago

"We have been fighting on this planet for 5000 years and we should take advantage of their experience." Lessons in better tactics ain't the most important learning to draw from that reading, General.

PakG1 13y ago
If war is a necessary course of action, then it is possibly the most important lesson. War is of course the least desirable course of action. But his job isn't to find peace without war. His job is to do his job (win wars) if called upon. The people responsible for peace are the political leaders. If they fail, they turn to the military. Yes, sometimes they turn to the military without exploring all avenues to peace. Whether or not those are good decisions can be long debated. But do not put the onus for peace on him. Rather, be thankful that he is capable to do his job. The responsibility for peace lays on the shoulders of political leaders and diplomats. Quoting the only line that ever stuck with me from Alien vs. Predator: "Why do you have a gun?" "It's like a condom. I'd rather have it and not need it, than need it but not have it."
- cerebrum 13y ago
  > If war is a necessary course of action, then it is possibly the most important lesson. I think all wars since WWI were probably unnecessary but they were fought for economic reasons. It was all about money.
  - PakG1 13y ago
    Look at my second paragraph. :)
- derefr 13y ago
  > Yes, sometimes they turn to the military without exploring all avenues to peace. Whether or not those are good decisions can be long debated. But do not put the onus for peace on him. What about all the military coups throughout history, where a general decided the politico commanding him wasn't a very good leader, and took his place?

jamesaguilar 13y ago

I support reading, but it's far more important to learn how to distinguish truth from fiction than it is to read a lot. Ironically, that's the one thing that it's quite difficult to learn from reading. You can see it easily on this site where there are so many people who can argue eloquently and passionately for diametrically opposed perspectives on an issue. Both sides can't both be right, even though a comment would in isolation be more than enough to convince someone who was not skeptical. If you can't distinguish which pretty words are the true ones, you'll be lead by the nose by the guy who can put his words together best, which isn't necessarily a great idea except if you're trying to learn to write and argue.

cerebrum 13y ago
You make an excellent point. Being a member of various forums I have encountered again and again the "clever arguer" who is someone who is able to convince lots of people of his opinion even when he is wrong.
wwweston 13y ago
> there are so many people who can argue eloquently and passionately for diametrically opposed perspectives on an issue. Both sides can't both be right It is sometimes true that both sides can't be right -- there certainly formal propositions which are mutually exclusive (a circle can be squared, a circle cannot be squared). Other times, people are arguing in a space where there's tension between multiple true principles (which programming language is best for your new project -- the more expressive/flexible/typesafe one you don't know? or the one you're already familiar with?).
Swizec 13y ago
> Both sides can't both be right This isn't mathematics, this is the real world. Here issues aren't two-sided, they are dodecahedrons and all sides are right.
- gadders 13y ago
  Or even one side could be right, but it's unknowable/unprovable.

aklemm 13y ago

Reading is fundamental! Outside history and military, another profound effect reading has is that fiction can actually increase empathy in the real world: http://www.yorku.ca/mar/Mar%20et%20al%202009_reading%20fiction%20and%20empathy.pdf http://www.yorku.ca/mar/Mar%20et%20al%202009_reading%20ficti... Between that and the general's words, how can one not spend any spare minute reading?

mc-lovin 13y ago
"In order to rule out the role of personality, we first identified Openness as the most consistent correlate. This trait was then statistically controlled for, along with two other important individual differences: the tendency to be drawn into stories and gender. Even after accounting for these variables, fiction exposure still predicted performance on an empathy task." This methodology is fundamentally flawed. There is no technical fix to get around the fact that you cannot distinguish between reading causing more empathy, or greater empathy causing more reading. They are trying to measure the relationship between personality traits and reading, and then claiming to control for personality!
- aklemm 13y ago
  I'll let you take that up with the authors. Until it's settled, we can all just reflect on whether reading stories has helped us, personally, better understand and empathize with others.
  - mc-lovin 13y ago
    "I'll let you take that up with the authors." That's a fairly flippant way to deal with my criticism. If you post a study here, it's fine if you haven't read it, but you shouldn't pretend that anything that's been published is infallible.
    - aklemm 13y ago
      It's flippant, but also completely honest. If mc-lovin of HN is correct that this study should be ignored and possibly retracted, then he should email the authors. Telling me about it does no good. Your original comment may be 100% accurate, but it really doesn't take away from the insight the study talks about. Your comment would have been more useful if you had a counter-argument about reading and empathy, but you only offered an unfounded criticism. Really.

will_work4tears 13y ago

He thinks we've only been fighting for 5000 years? Is he a Young Earth Creationist or something?

PakG1 13y ago
I think he is talking from the perspective of civilizations waging organized war. It would make the most sense, given who he is and the lessons he hopes to learn. Let's not put thoughts into his mind or words into his mouth that aren't necessarily there.

Turing_Machine 13y ago

Is one of his tips "make sure to use a tiny, marginally-legible sans-serif font in a layout that wastes 2/3 of the screen?"