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... You should be putting tax money aside with each check you get, really easy. Open up one of the online savings accounts, and throw money at it. Right now I

... You should be putting tax money aside with each check you get, really easy. Open up one of the online savings accounts, and throw money at it. Right now I withhold about 30% of each check to cover all the various taxes I'll owe. Then I pay the minimum for quarterly taxes (to avoid the fine). Then, it's easy to write the check for your chunk of taxes at the end of the year, since you've saved it up. You should have the discipline to not go raiding your tax bucket.... it's not your money.

DanielBMarkham 18y ago
You should have the discipline to not go raiding your tax bucket.... it's not your money See that's where I have a problem. If I sell you an apple, and you give me five bucks, for some reason I have this feeling that the five bucks really belongs to me. And yes, I understand the theory of how this should work, after all, I am not an idiot. I'm just explaining to you how it actually works. In reality, when you've got $40K in the bank for taxes and the gig is up and there's no money coming in, you're choosing between taxes and living for a year. Maybe you can sleep better at night paying taxes, but I've got to take care of my family first.
- cschneid 18y ago
  It's not your money. How are you planning on taking care of your family when you're in jail for a few years on tax evasion? Anyway, come on... you're saying "I'm going to skip paying taxes so I don't have to work for a year"..... how does that make any sense at all, and how is that a defensible position? How about you take the $100k you made on your job (then put away $40k) and learn to live on it? I know I sound like a dick, but you're advocating not paying taxes, just because you'd prefer not to. You're obviously a smart guy, posting on hacker news, talking about taxes, you'd have no problem finding a job that keeps your family eating and in a house.
  - DanielBMarkham 18y ago
    So let me see if I understand you. You think that if I have money in the bank that is owed for taxes, I should pay the taxes even if it means not having food on the table. That since I'm "obviously a smart guy" that I should find work at some place based on your criteria (one supposes that criteria would be "make enough to pay taxes, you schmuck") instead of having the freedom to negotiate a contract and situation that is more productive to me and society in the long run? So my obligation on taxes is greater than my obligation both to my family (to find the best job possible and to support them during times of non-work) and to myself? (to have the freedom to spend money I have in the bank in a priority that I set, even if it means risking higher debt and fines later on) Nobody is skipping taxes. Nobody is advocating not paying taxes. I've yet to have not pay -- eventually. I'm simply describing how easy it is if you are a non-standard wage earner (like a startup entrepreneur) to get hosed up in tax liabilities. People don't fit into the little boxes that tax policy wonks want them to. That's the point. I grew up with the idea that the people owned the government, not the other way around. It seems that your feeling is that taxes are such an obligation that they should come ahead of personal preferences for work. That folks should take jobs wherever they can find them in order to fulfill their tax obligations. Ok yes, I've rehashed what I think you're saying and it's true: you sound like a dick. Care to rethink any of that? Or did I misunderstand?
    - cschneid 18y ago
      Ok. So what you're saying is that you have a profession which has long dry periods in between lucrative jobs. Also, that you don't have the planning skills to have enough in the bank to feed your family if things don't work out, and you have a longer period between jobs. So, you skip out on legal obligations (you know, paying taxes...) in order to make ends meet. I'm saying that instead you take a pragmatic view of things, you pay your taxes, avoid jail time, and further ruin later (fines, interest, etc). Build up more of a cushion of savings, since obviously you can't count on your income. And consider the idea that maybe you should get temporary jobs to NOT STARVE if it comes to that. Basically, our disagreement here is that you think that the money is yours the whole time, and that taxes are a separate bill, which you then don't plan ahead for. I propose that the money you set aside for taxes is no longer yours, it's in your keeping, but you are legally obligated to pay it (probably quarterly) to the government, in order to pay for all the societal benefits taxes provide (whole other argument). I get annoyed that you make a ton of money (on the order of $100k), have the foresight to put aside the money for taxes, and then ... "whoops, I spent it all", and complain that you don't have enough to pay your taxes. You have a family sure, and a hard to predict job, but come on, you make way more than enough to feed them, and clothe them, and even pay for piano lessons. All while paying taxes.

DanielBMarkham 18y ago

You should have the discipline to not go raiding your tax bucket.... it's not your money See that's where I have a problem. If I sell you an apple, and you give me five bucks, for some reason I have this feeling that the five bucks really belongs to me. And yes, I understand the theory of how this should work, after all, I am not an idiot. I'm just explaining to you how it actually works. In reality, when you've got $40K in the bank for taxes and the gig is up and there's no money coming in, you're choosing between taxes and living for a year. Maybe you can sleep better at night paying taxes, but I've got to take care of my family first.

cschneid 18y ago
It's not your money. How are you planning on taking care of your family when you're in jail for a few years on tax evasion? Anyway, come on... you're saying "I'm going to skip paying taxes so I don't have to work for a year"..... how does that make any sense at all, and how is that a defensible position? How about you take the $100k you made on your job (then put away $40k) and learn to live on it? I know I sound like a dick, but you're advocating not paying taxes, just because you'd prefer not to. You're obviously a smart guy, posting on hacker news, talking about taxes, you'd have no problem finding a job that keeps your family eating and in a house.
- DanielBMarkham 18y ago
  So let me see if I understand you. You think that if I have money in the bank that is owed for taxes, I should pay the taxes even if it means not having food on the table. That since I'm "obviously a smart guy" that I should find work at some place based on your criteria (one supposes that criteria would be "make enough to pay taxes, you schmuck") instead of having the freedom to negotiate a contract and situation that is more productive to me and society in the long run? So my obligation on taxes is greater than my obligation both to my family (to find the best job possible and to support them during times of non-work) and to myself? (to have the freedom to spend money I have in the bank in a priority that I set, even if it means risking higher debt and fines later on) Nobody is skipping taxes. Nobody is advocating not paying taxes. I've yet to have not pay -- eventually. I'm simply describing how easy it is if you are a non-standard wage earner (like a startup entrepreneur) to get hosed up in tax liabilities. People don't fit into the little boxes that tax policy wonks want them to. That's the point. I grew up with the idea that the people owned the government, not the other way around. It seems that your feeling is that taxes are such an obligation that they should come ahead of personal preferences for work. That folks should take jobs wherever they can find them in order to fulfill their tax obligations. Ok yes, I've rehashed what I think you're saying and it's true: you sound like a dick. Care to rethink any of that? Or did I misunderstand?
  - cschneid 18y ago
    Ok. So what you're saying is that you have a profession which has long dry periods in between lucrative jobs. Also, that you don't have the planning skills to have enough in the bank to feed your family if things don't work out, and you have a longer period between jobs. So, you skip out on legal obligations (you know, paying taxes...) in order to make ends meet. I'm saying that instead you take a pragmatic view of things, you pay your taxes, avoid jail time, and further ruin later (fines, interest, etc). Build up more of a cushion of savings, since obviously you can't count on your income. And consider the idea that maybe you should get temporary jobs to NOT STARVE if it comes to that. Basically, our disagreement here is that you think that the money is yours the whole time, and that taxes are a separate bill, which you then don't plan ahead for. I propose that the money you set aside for taxes is no longer yours, it's in your keeping, but you are legally obligated to pay it (probably quarterly) to the government, in order to pay for all the societal benefits taxes provide (whole other argument). I get annoyed that you make a ton of money (on the order of $100k), have the foresight to put aside the money for taxes, and then ... "whoops, I spent it all", and complain that you don't have enough to pay your taxes. You have a family sure, and a hard to predict job, but come on, you make way more than enough to feed them, and clothe them, and even pay for piano lessons. All while paying taxes.