7 ms·

I had to google what is tiger mom, and found this: "never allowed: - attend a sleepover - have a playdate - be in a school play - complain about not being i

by dmishe 13y ago

I had to google what is tiger mom, and found this: "never allowed: - attend a sleepover - have a playdate - be in a school play - complain about not being in a school play - watch TV or play computer games - choose their own extracurricular activities - get any grade less than an “A” - not be the No. 1 student in every subject except gym and drama - play any instrument other than the piano or violin - not play the piano or violin.” Well, fuck.

gradstudent 13y ago
There's a few things on the list I disagree with (games, sleepovers, school play) but otherwise? Spot on. Kids lack sufficient perspective to understand which activities are important and why.
- eatitraw 13y ago
  > Spot on. Kids lack sufficient perspective to understand which activities are important and why. Important to whom? I am pretty sure kids know what is important to them and why. Sure, this may be different to what their parents think(e.g. their parents may find games, sleepovers and other stuff "unimportant"). BTW, you can use the very same logic as justification for controlling adults. [And frankly speaking, this logic is used by (almost?) all politicians]
  - gradstudent 13y ago
    Kids don't know jack. If a kid isn't good at maths, and their friends aren't good at maths, they conclude that maths is stupid and not worth doing. Adults know better which is why they need to push kids toward productive activities and away from unproductive ones. Which isn't to say they shouldn't be allowed leisure time to be kids. Simply that a guiding hand, and sometimes a forceful hand, is necessary.
    - jiggy2011 13y ago
      But is it necessary to micromanage to that level? I mean , it's certainly preferable for your kid to study music than to do drugs but do you need to dictate the exact instrument they will play? Or perhaps they aren't so interested in music and would prefer to use the time for some other constructive activity (say programming).
      - gradstudent 13y ago
        Music education makes you a better rounded human. IMO it should be mandatory in early development. Kids are fickle and shortsighted. Why even let them decide these kinds of things at an early age? As a grown adult a parent is obviously in a better position to choose. Expose them to music, math, programming -- all that good stuff! Obviously you wouldn't take it to extremes and torture the kid but I have noticed a trend among Anglo parents to let their children make important decisions during their elementary years -- like what is and isn't a worthwhile pursuit. It then comes down to pure dumb luck whether the child is engaged in a worthwhile recreational activity or a dumb one.
        eatitraw 13y ago
        Again, worthwhile - to whom? And again, you can apply the very same logic to (some) adults. Many people, actually, do this. That's why they ban drugs, for example. That's why they setup(or allow the setup of) censorship systems(china great firewall and many others). Some people are just too dumb to think. This may sound irrelevant to the discussion, but it is not. What age is not early age? Parents always be more "grown"(their age number will always be bigger). Coercion is killer of motivation: force kid to play violin, and he is likely to hate violin in the (near?) future. I'm not saying that you shouldn't "expose" kids to music, math, programming and other great stuff, but I'm saying that you probably shouldn't force them.
        gradstudent 13y ago
        IMO, you should parent your children until they go off to University. They live under your roof and need to follow your rules. If they do not follow your rules they need to argue their case in a rational adult manner and to your satisfaction. If they cannot and act like petulant children you need to treat them as such; i.e. tell them to shut the hell up and eat their dogfood. I don't care that the same arguments could be applied to adults. Adults are grown individuals who by virtue of their age have earned their right to be bone-headed and make stupid choices. As a parent all you can do is try to instill in your children values that prevent them from turning into boneheads. Clear enough?
- gcr 13y ago
  Certain parents also lack a sufficient perspective to understand what kinds of activities are good for their kids' well-being and happiness.
- sliverstorm 13y ago
  I agree. No child should ever be allowed to be anything less than the best student in their class.
  - gradstudent 13y ago
    Your irony is wasted on me. IMO parents should actively encourage their child to be the best student in the class. So many talented kids amount to nothing because they're allowed to coast during their formative years. Encouraging them to be the best, teaches ambition and excellence. It doesn't matter if they don't end up being Engineers or Surgeons or what-have-you. Regardless of the life goals they purse, to succeed, they need to be always hungry for better.
    - sliverstorm 13y ago
      I'm afraid you are unfamiliar with a key element of "tiger mothers", or in fact many asian parents at all. From what I know of my friends' families growing up, asian parents did not encourage. They required.
      - gradstudent 13y ago
        An encouraging hand can be a forceful hand. It's lazy to tell little Bobby that he should do math and that math is important. Sometimes you have to sit his spoiled little ass down and make him get on with it. I did not grow up with Asian parents. I do however come from a Eastern European background. There were times when my parents forced me, kicking and screaming, into certain social and academic pursuits. They encouraged me to excel, whether I wanted to or not. I am a better human for it and I am thankful for their guidance.
        sliverstorm 13y ago
        I see, this is why I misunderstood your comment. You include "to force someone to do" as among the definitions of "encourage", I normally do not.
eatitraw 13y ago
Oh crap. Why do someone want to do this with their own children? I am especially puzzled about the purpose of: "- play any instrument other than the piano or violin - not play the piano or violin." I just don't understand the logic behind this two restrictions.
- kaitai 13y ago
  Folks, the list is supposed to be funny. Of course it's over the top and somewhat arbitrary. The author knows it. She's also over the top and somewhat arbitrary.
  - illuminate 13y ago
    I think the phrase is "ha ha only serious".
- rickyc091 13y ago
  The idea is that if they cut out all the extracurricular / social aspects of a child's life, then the child will have nothing better to do other than focusing on academia. Of course, in reality that doesn't happen. Children will rebel when they come to that age. As for the no violin / piano. I think you have it wrong. It's "no musical instruments other than piano or violin." (http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-03-06/news/ct-met-tiger-mom-20110306_1_tiger-mother-amy-chua-tiger-mom http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-03-06/news/ct-met-ti...)
  - RYUUSEiiSTAR 13y ago
    "Never allowed to: - play any instrument other than the piano or violin - not play the piano or violin.” you read it wrong.
- sliverstorm 13y ago
  It's intended as a somewhat humorous wording of "you MUST play an instrument; your choices are piano or violin, NOTHING ELSE."
RYUUSEiiSTAR 13y ago
I'm nearly 21, and this is pretty much the case for me STILL. Friends I've known for 16 years of my life I still can't sleep over. Allowed to go out? I begged and was promptly banned afterwards (whilst I was in year 7) from leaving the house until after my HSC (AU, NSW's final hs exam, but this obviously didn't stick after a few months). Drama? Sports? I was raised by quiet, somewhat anti-social Asian parents all my life, that was never a problem. Computer games? If it's maths related then that was okay (and I put up with it because I was so intrigued with computers and the sums were easy enough after all those self-study maths books). 19/20 for a test? Why didn't you get 20/20? Your friend did. Begin silent treatment. I started playing at 7 because there was a program in school and I wanted to be one of the kids who got to leave class for an hour. I loved it at first, and then was moved from the private class to a one-on-one with a specialised teacher. Again, it was something new and I liked it, but it increasingly became tedious and I hated it. I hated the boring music, I hated the scales, I couldn't even reach half the notes whilst playing broken chords. And then I began to despise it. It was only by a slim chance I found an amazing pianist and composer that I fell in love with the piano again. Now that I'm in uni, life is better, and I've found something I love doing. My grades are better and I can work at the same time without it hindering uni work. My mum is definitely not a tiger mum, she's not that bad, but it does make me wonder if I would be excelling as much as I do now if I didn't have all that pressure growing up.
- Nursie 13y ago
  If you're nearly 21 why are you still either at home or listening to their rules about who sleeps over where? You're an adult, these things are now your choice.
  - RYUUSEiiSTAR 13y ago
    My parents have made it quite clear that they'll want nothing to do with me if I leave. I've grown to appreciate them quite a lot and more than anything I still want them in my life. I would take the risk and leave if I knew they would forgive me for it, but they won't. I have cousins who have been disowned by their families, and they haven't spoken to each other in years. I don't want this to happen to me. Family is critically important in Asian families and I don't want any of my future kids growing up never knowing their heritage and culture. If it means I'll be getting engaged a few years earlier than expected, then so be it. I'll drag out the pre-wedding phase until I'm ready.

by dmishe 13y ago

gradstudent 13y ago

There's a few things on the list I disagree with (games, sleepovers, school play) but otherwise? Spot on. Kids lack sufficient perspective to understand which activities are important and why.

eatitraw 13y ago
> Spot on. Kids lack sufficient perspective to understand which activities are important and why. Important to whom? I am pretty sure kids know what is important to them and why. Sure, this may be different to what their parents think(e.g. their parents may find games, sleepovers and other stuff "unimportant"). BTW, you can use the very same logic as justification for controlling adults. [And frankly speaking, this logic is used by (almost?) all politicians]
- gradstudent 13y ago
  Kids don't know jack. If a kid isn't good at maths, and their friends aren't good at maths, they conclude that maths is stupid and not worth doing. Adults know better which is why they need to push kids toward productive activities and away from unproductive ones. Which isn't to say they shouldn't be allowed leisure time to be kids. Simply that a guiding hand, and sometimes a forceful hand, is necessary.
  - jiggy2011 13y ago
    But is it necessary to micromanage to that level? I mean , it's certainly preferable for your kid to study music than to do drugs but do you need to dictate the exact instrument they will play? Or perhaps they aren't so interested in music and would prefer to use the time for some other constructive activity (say programming).
    - gradstudent 13y ago
      Music education makes you a better rounded human. IMO it should be mandatory in early development. Kids are fickle and shortsighted. Why even let them decide these kinds of things at an early age? As a grown adult a parent is obviously in a better position to choose. Expose them to music, math, programming -- all that good stuff! Obviously you wouldn't take it to extremes and torture the kid but I have noticed a trend among Anglo parents to let their children make important decisions during their elementary years -- like what is and isn't a worthwhile pursuit. It then comes down to pure dumb luck whether the child is engaged in a worthwhile recreational activity or a dumb one.
      - eatitraw 13y ago
        Again, worthwhile - to whom? And again, you can apply the very same logic to (some) adults. Many people, actually, do this. That's why they ban drugs, for example. That's why they setup(or allow the setup of) censorship systems(china great firewall and many others). Some people are just too dumb to think. This may sound irrelevant to the discussion, but it is not. What age is not early age? Parents always be more "grown"(their age number will always be bigger). Coercion is killer of motivation: force kid to play violin, and he is likely to hate violin in the (near?) future. I'm not saying that you shouldn't "expose" kids to music, math, programming and other great stuff, but I'm saying that you probably shouldn't force them.
        gradstudent 13y ago
        IMO, you should parent your children until they go off to University. They live under your roof and need to follow your rules. If they do not follow your rules they need to argue their case in a rational adult manner and to your satisfaction. If they cannot and act like petulant children you need to treat them as such; i.e. tell them to shut the hell up and eat their dogfood. I don't care that the same arguments could be applied to adults. Adults are grown individuals who by virtue of their age have earned their right to be bone-headed and make stupid choices. As a parent all you can do is try to instill in your children values that prevent them from turning into boneheads. Clear enough?
gcr 13y ago
Certain parents also lack a sufficient perspective to understand what kinds of activities are good for their kids' well-being and happiness.
sliverstorm 13y ago
I agree. No child should ever be allowed to be anything less than the best student in their class.
- gradstudent 13y ago
  Your irony is wasted on me. IMO parents should actively encourage their child to be the best student in the class. So many talented kids amount to nothing because they're allowed to coast during their formative years. Encouraging them to be the best, teaches ambition and excellence. It doesn't matter if they don't end up being Engineers or Surgeons or what-have-you. Regardless of the life goals they purse, to succeed, they need to be always hungry for better.
  - sliverstorm 13y ago
    I'm afraid you are unfamiliar with a key element of "tiger mothers", or in fact many asian parents at all. From what I know of my friends' families growing up, asian parents did not encourage. They required.
    - gradstudent 13y ago
      An encouraging hand can be a forceful hand. It's lazy to tell little Bobby that he should do math and that math is important. Sometimes you have to sit his spoiled little ass down and make him get on with it. I did not grow up with Asian parents. I do however come from a Eastern European background. There were times when my parents forced me, kicking and screaming, into certain social and academic pursuits. They encouraged me to excel, whether I wanted to or not. I am a better human for it and I am thankful for their guidance.
      - sliverstorm 13y ago
        I see, this is why I misunderstood your comment. You include "to force someone to do" as among the definitions of "encourage", I normally do not.

eatitraw 13y ago

Oh crap. Why do someone want to do this with their own children? I am especially puzzled about the purpose of: "- play any instrument other than the piano or violin - not play the piano or violin." I just don't understand the logic behind this two restrictions.

kaitai 13y ago
Folks, the list is supposed to be funny. Of course it's over the top and somewhat arbitrary. The author knows it. She's also over the top and somewhat arbitrary.
- illuminate 13y ago
  I think the phrase is "ha ha only serious".
rickyc091 13y ago
The idea is that if they cut out all the extracurricular / social aspects of a child's life, then the child will have nothing better to do other than focusing on academia. Of course, in reality that doesn't happen. Children will rebel when they come to that age. As for the no violin / piano. I think you have it wrong. It's "no musical instruments other than piano or violin." (http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-03-06/news/ct-met-tiger-mom-20110306_1_tiger-mother-amy-chua-tiger-mom http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-03-06/news/ct-met-ti...)
- RYUUSEiiSTAR 13y ago
  "Never allowed to: - play any instrument other than the piano or violin - not play the piano or violin.” you read it wrong.
sliverstorm 13y ago
It's intended as a somewhat humorous wording of "you MUST play an instrument; your choices are piano or violin, NOTHING ELSE."

RYUUSEiiSTAR 13y ago

I'm nearly 21, and this is pretty much the case for me STILL. Friends I've known for 16 years of my life I still can't sleep over. Allowed to go out? I begged and was promptly banned afterwards (whilst I was in year 7) from leaving the house until after my HSC (AU, NSW's final hs exam, but this obviously didn't stick after a few months). Drama? Sports? I was raised by quiet, somewhat anti-social Asian parents all my life, that was never a problem. Computer games? If it's maths related then that was okay (and I put up with it because I was so intrigued with computers and the sums were easy enough after all those self-study maths books). 19/20 for a test? Why didn't you get 20/20? Your friend did. Begin silent treatment. I started playing at 7 because there was a program in school and I wanted to be one of the kids who got to leave class for an hour. I loved it at first, and then was moved from the private class to a one-on-one with a specialised teacher. Again, it was something new and I liked it, but it increasingly became tedious and I hated it. I hated the boring music, I hated the scales, I couldn't even reach half the notes whilst playing broken chords. And then I began to despise it. It was only by a slim chance I found an amazing pianist and composer that I fell in love with the piano again. Now that I'm in uni, life is better, and I've found something I love doing. My grades are better and I can work at the same time without it hindering uni work. My mum is definitely not a tiger mum, she's not that bad, but it does make me wonder if I would be excelling as much as I do now if I didn't have all that pressure growing up.

Nursie 13y ago
If you're nearly 21 why are you still either at home or listening to their rules about who sleeps over where? You're an adult, these things are now your choice.
- RYUUSEiiSTAR 13y ago
  My parents have made it quite clear that they'll want nothing to do with me if I leave. I've grown to appreciate them quite a lot and more than anything I still want them in my life. I would take the risk and leave if I knew they would forgive me for it, but they won't. I have cousins who have been disowned by their families, and they haven't spoken to each other in years. I don't want this to happen to me. Family is critically important in Asian families and I don't want any of my future kids growing up never knowing their heritage and culture. If it means I'll be getting engaged a few years earlier than expected, then so be it. I'll drag out the pre-wedding phase until I'm ready.