8 ms·

For all of the people in this thread saying "some of these aren't that bad" you seriously need to get some perspective. Come visit what's disparagingly called "

For all of the people in this thread saying "some of these aren't that bad" you seriously need to get some perspective. Come visit what's disparagingly called "flyover country." I live in the St Louis area and pay $450/month for my apartment. ~1100 square feet with a yard and a parking spot in a nice, safe neighborhood. I fully realize that I may not have all of the opportunities available here as I would in NYC or San Francisco, but I've never struggled to find interesting, well paying jobs and there is more than enough going on in the St Louis area to keep a person entertained. Far be it from me to judge other peoples' choices. You should do whatever makes you happy in life but, when you find yourself saying that a room the size of my closet "isn't so bad" of a living space, you might want to take a step back and reassess some things.

jlgreco 13y ago
Of the factors that I consider when I decide what city I want to move into, apartment size/price is pretty far down on the list. Those who weight those things differently will of course not live in those sort of places. Neither is more correct than the other, nor does one require more reevaluation than the other.
Kylekramer 13y ago
Depends on how you live. I am a east coast city person through and through, so it might be my bias, but these rooms seem not all that terrible. Raising kids, living with a significant other, sure. You need space in those. But for a post-grad getting started who isn't a homebody and mostly just needs a place to sleep and store food, I don't see why they'd need to reaccess their life.
- jlgreco 13y ago
  Yeah, I'm coming from the perspective of someone who spent much of their early life on the east coast. At that point in my life my apartment was just that place I crashed after partying. I hung out, ate, and generally lived elsewhere throughout the city. These days my life has changed and my apartment is more of a place that I wind down after work. I would not consider living in these places now, but in my past? Absolutely.
michaelochurch 13y ago
For all of the people in this thread saying "some of these aren't that bad" you seriously need to get some perspective. 7-year New Yorker here. By NYC standards, they aren't that bad. They're unattractive and small, but I've seen a lot worse. Some of the places that I've had realtors show me make these places look like palaces. When I first got here and was living on close to nothing, I found (on Craigslist) a Williamsburg loft where there'd literally be a shower curtain separating my "room" (which was filthy) from a dark, tenement-like space with ~12 people in it. Kitchen stuff was at least 50 years old and probably didn't work. I visited at 10:00pm on a Thursday and it was loud as hell. $1200 per month. Um, no thanks. (By the way, Williamsburg has the most intense negative energy on earth. Hipsters sound okay in theory but I can't fucking stand them in practice. To give one a job is like pouring salt on a slug, except a good thing in the former case because the whining is entertaining.) However, I agree with you. If you can get a stream of good jobs out in the Midwest, that is the way to go. It's honestly not worth the cost of living here for most people. The high rents here are driven by (a) asshole foreign speculators that the government irresponsibly lets into the market, when a 6-months-and-1-day rule is really in order, (b) various legacy rent-control systems that wouldn't be a big deal except in the context of extreme price inelasticity-- I have no problem with the idea of rent control, or even with its continuation for the legitimate beneficiaries; but when upper-middle-class well-connected asswipes buy their way into an arrangement that's superior to ownership, and lock up housing stock, that's wrong, (c) NIMBY like you wouldn't believe, (d) parentally-funded hipster zeros whose guilt-ridden spawners decided they have some entitlement to the "New York Experience" (at $2-6k/month) even though they do absolutely nothing for anyone, (e) the fact that in investment banking and large-firm law, there really are major career benefits to living here (you pretty much need to live in Manhattan to get promoted in soft-side banking; trading is more of a meritocracy where you can live whereever you want as long as you show up on time). If none of these apply, New York is not worth the cost of living here. It is nice, if you take out the cost problem; I just think having savings and, eventually, the freedom with having a nest egg, improves the average person's quality of life by more. (You might guess that I don't intend to be here in 10 years, although I'm very glad I spent the 7 that I have.)
- pavel_lishin 13y ago
  > By NYC standards, they aren't that bad. They're unattractive and small, but I've seen a lot worse. 3-year New Yorker here. By NYC standards, most of these are bad. There certainly are worst places that cost more than what's being shown here, but that doesn't make these "not bad". My first apartment here had two separate rooms, a large kitchen, a bathroom and a "foyer", for $1k/month. The only reason for living in any of the rooms they've shown here is an absolute need to live in that particular neighborhood, whether you're doing it because you need to be next to your job, or because you need to be neck-deep in the "culture" of that particular neighborhood. I do however agree with you that New York isn't a good fit for most people, but for some people it's the only conceivable place to live.
tks2103 13y ago
"Far be it from me to judge other peoples' choices." "...you seriously need to get some perspective." you are definitely judging other peoples' choices. that's not a bad thing, but own up to it. i have a good reason for not living in 'flyover country'. when i was growing up there, i had direct encounters with racist individuals on a regular basis. i have not had those encounters in nyc (i also lived in san francisco and had racist interactions there). i like walking around people that don't look at me funny. rent in nyc is the best $2000/month i spend.
- beachstartup 13y ago
  they'll deny it all day long but LOTS of areas in the midwest and south are racist as shit. there's HUGE value to just being able to blend in and go about your god damn day without harassment, except you won't know it until you live in a place where you stick out. people who are from these areas will say "i encountered more racist people in the north/west/whatever" but they're usually just referring to people who shared their racist opinion with them, not actually being on the RECEIVING END of a racist interaction. which MAKES SENSE if you think about it - white people in manhattan or SF or LA are basically going to feel like a minority, and may seek a little bit of empathetic camraderie by complaining about race X Y or Z. if a white person does this in vastly majority white area they're just going to seem like an asshole with a chip on their shoulder. the coastal areas make it easy to blend in no matter who you are. nobody is going to hassle you or ask you stupid ass questions.
  - firefoxman1 13y ago
    I think some areas depend on city size. Moving from New Mexico to (southwest) Virginia I realized that small-town southern cities are extremely backward, especially with racism. However, head North to the northern 1/3 of VA and it's as diverse and accepting as any decent city.
    - khuey 13y ago
      The northern third of VA is basically the DC metro area.
rooshdi 13y ago
They really don't look that bad. Everything's relative I guess.
mjn 13y ago
> and a parking spot Is this a parking spot of the optional, nice-to-have variety, or of the mandatory, can't-live-without-a-car variety? There are lots of different lifestyle tradeoffs in cities, and different things that might cause you to step back and consider moving. For me personally, I was sick of driving. Whether I have to drive everywhere is much more important than the size of my living space. I don't particularly mind small living spaces, especially if it means I can often be out of my small living space just by walking out the door into the city. Though I do prefer them to have some good natural light. Of course, I didn't move to NYC either, so I don't know whether its particular set of tradeoffs is worth it overall.
msutherl 13y ago
I agree that these places are not that bad statistically – I've heard horror stories and Craigslist is full of places like this – but I would never live in any of these apartments and I was able to find great apartments with lots of light and space (in Brooklyn, mind you) for under $1200. I've actually always wondered who takes apartments like these. Either people with no taste, no plans to ever be home, or no time to hunt (it usually takes a week or two to find a good place).
deleted 13y ago
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aneth4 13y ago
It's a perfectly reasonable decision to live in a closet if that's all you can afford in the city you want to live in. When I travel, I often stay in dorms, not because I can't afford a room, but because it's more fun and I feel better about being part of a community. Many dorms might be undesirable holes in your mind, but they also might be a lot more fun. Some people place little value on the room they sleep in and a lot of value on having access to an amazing city like New York. In fact, I'd say that's often a better life choice than isolating yourself in the suburbs.
wdr1 13y ago
You need to factor in different lifestyles as well. In more rural areas, you spend significantly more time in your home. Partly because it's nicer, partly because they're fewer choices. In a place like Manhattan, it's not uncommon for your home (esp. if it's small) to be little more than a place you sleep & bathe. (That's not to say one is better than the other -- each to their own.)

jlgreco 13y ago

Of the factors that I consider when I decide what city I want to move into, apartment size/price is pretty far down on the list. Those who weight those things differently will of course not live in those sort of places. Neither is more correct than the other, nor does one require more reevaluation than the other.

Kylekramer 13y ago

Depends on how you live. I am a east coast city person through and through, so it might be my bias, but these rooms seem not all that terrible. Raising kids, living with a significant other, sure. You need space in those. But for a post-grad getting started who isn't a homebody and mostly just needs a place to sleep and store food, I don't see why they'd need to reaccess their life.

jlgreco 13y ago
Yeah, I'm coming from the perspective of someone who spent much of their early life on the east coast. At that point in my life my apartment was just that place I crashed after partying. I hung out, ate, and generally lived elsewhere throughout the city. These days my life has changed and my apartment is more of a place that I wind down after work. I would not consider living in these places now, but in my past? Absolutely.

michaelochurch 13y ago

For all of the people in this thread saying "some of these aren't that bad" you seriously need to get some perspective. 7-year New Yorker here. By NYC standards, they aren't that bad. They're unattractive and small, but I've seen a lot worse. Some of the places that I've had realtors show me make these places look like palaces. When I first got here and was living on close to nothing, I found (on Craigslist) a Williamsburg loft where there'd literally be a shower curtain separating my "room" (which was filthy) from a dark, tenement-like space with ~12 people in it. Kitchen stuff was at least 50 years old and probably didn't work. I visited at 10:00pm on a Thursday and it was loud as hell. $1200 per month. Um, no thanks. (By the way, Williamsburg has the most intense negative energy on earth. Hipsters sound okay in theory but I can't fucking stand them in practice. To give one a job is like pouring salt on a slug, except a good thing in the former case because the whining is entertaining.) However, I agree with you. If you can get a stream of good jobs out in the Midwest, that is the way to go. It's honestly not worth the cost of living here for most people. The high rents here are driven by (a) asshole foreign speculators that the government irresponsibly lets into the market, when a 6-months-and-1-day rule is really in order, (b) various legacy rent-control systems that wouldn't be a big deal except in the context of extreme price inelasticity-- I have no problem with the idea of rent control, or even with its continuation for the legitimate beneficiaries; but when upper-middle-class well-connected asswipes buy their way into an arrangement that's superior to ownership, and lock up housing stock, that's wrong, (c) NIMBY like you wouldn't believe, (d) parentally-funded hipster zeros whose guilt-ridden spawners decided they have some entitlement to the "New York Experience" (at $2-6k/month) even though they do absolutely nothing for anyone, (e) the fact that in investment banking and large-firm law, there really are major career benefits to living here (you pretty much need to live in Manhattan to get promoted in soft-side banking; trading is more of a meritocracy where you can live whereever you want as long as you show up on time). If none of these apply, New York is not worth the cost of living here. It is nice, if you take out the cost problem; I just think having savings and, eventually, the freedom with having a nest egg, improves the average person's quality of life by more. (You might guess that I don't intend to be here in 10 years, although I'm very glad I spent the 7 that I have.)

pavel_lishin 13y ago
> By NYC standards, they aren't that bad. They're unattractive and small, but I've seen a lot worse. 3-year New Yorker here. By NYC standards, most of these are bad. There certainly are worst places that cost more than what's being shown here, but that doesn't make these "not bad". My first apartment here had two separate rooms, a large kitchen, a bathroom and a "foyer", for $1k/month. The only reason for living in any of the rooms they've shown here is an absolute need to live in that particular neighborhood, whether you're doing it because you need to be next to your job, or because you need to be neck-deep in the "culture" of that particular neighborhood. I do however agree with you that New York isn't a good fit for most people, but for some people it's the only conceivable place to live.

tks2103 13y ago

"Far be it from me to judge other peoples' choices." "...you seriously need to get some perspective." you are definitely judging other peoples' choices. that's not a bad thing, but own up to it. i have a good reason for not living in 'flyover country'. when i was growing up there, i had direct encounters with racist individuals on a regular basis. i have not had those encounters in nyc (i also lived in san francisco and had racist interactions there). i like walking around people that don't look at me funny. rent in nyc is the best $2000/month i spend.

beachstartup 13y ago
they'll deny it all day long but LOTS of areas in the midwest and south are racist as shit. there's HUGE value to just being able to blend in and go about your god damn day without harassment, except you won't know it until you live in a place where you stick out. people who are from these areas will say "i encountered more racist people in the north/west/whatever" but they're usually just referring to people who shared their racist opinion with them, not actually being on the RECEIVING END of a racist interaction. which MAKES SENSE if you think about it - white people in manhattan or SF or LA are basically going to feel like a minority, and may seek a little bit of empathetic camraderie by complaining about race X Y or Z. if a white person does this in vastly majority white area they're just going to seem like an asshole with a chip on their shoulder. the coastal areas make it easy to blend in no matter who you are. nobody is going to hassle you or ask you stupid ass questions.
- firefoxman1 13y ago
  I think some areas depend on city size. Moving from New Mexico to (southwest) Virginia I realized that small-town southern cities are extremely backward, especially with racism. However, head North to the northern 1/3 of VA and it's as diverse and accepting as any decent city.
  - khuey 13y ago
    The northern third of VA is basically the DC metro area.

rooshdi 13y ago

They really don't look that bad. Everything's relative I guess.

mjn 13y ago

> and a parking spot Is this a parking spot of the optional, nice-to-have variety, or of the mandatory, can't-live-without-a-car variety? There are lots of different lifestyle tradeoffs in cities, and different things that might cause you to step back and consider moving. For me personally, I was sick of driving. Whether I have to drive everywhere is much more important than the size of my living space. I don't particularly mind small living spaces, especially if it means I can often be out of my small living space just by walking out the door into the city. Though I do prefer them to have some good natural light. Of course, I didn't move to NYC either, so I don't know whether its particular set of tradeoffs is worth it overall.

msutherl 13y ago

I agree that these places are not that bad statistically – I've heard horror stories and Craigslist is full of places like this – but I would never live in any of these apartments and I was able to find great apartments with lots of light and space (in Brooklyn, mind you) for under $1200. I've actually always wondered who takes apartments like these. Either people with no taste, no plans to ever be home, or no time to hunt (it usually takes a week or two to find a good place).

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

aneth4 13y ago

It's a perfectly reasonable decision to live in a closet if that's all you can afford in the city you want to live in. When I travel, I often stay in dorms, not because I can't afford a room, but because it's more fun and I feel better about being part of a community. Many dorms might be undesirable holes in your mind, but they also might be a lot more fun. Some people place little value on the room they sleep in and a lot of value on having access to an amazing city like New York. In fact, I'd say that's often a better life choice than isolating yourself in the suburbs.

wdr1 13y ago

You need to factor in different lifestyles as well. In more rural areas, you spend significantly more time in your home. Partly because it's nicer, partly because they're fewer choices. In a place like Manhattan, it's not uncommon for your home (esp. if it's small) to be little more than a place you sleep & bathe. (That's not to say one is better than the other -- each to their own.)