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>The economy is not "a pie", because it's not a zero sum game. The pie can grow, leaving more for everyone. But in the short term (multiple years) the biggest

>The economy is not "a pie", because it's not a zero sum game. The pie can grow, leaving more for everyone. But in the short term (multiple years) the biggest swings will likely be in terms of allocation of wealth rather than increase in total wealth. The majority of immigrants aren't going to be the likes of Elon Musks or Sergey Brin. They're going to be the rank and file IT workers that absolutely will cause stagnant wages and increased unemployment.

davidw 14y ago
> The majority of immigrants aren't going to be the likes of Elon Musks or Sergey Brin. If you look at numbers, they will tell you that more immigrants than "natives" start businesses.
- davidw 14y ago
  Ah, the downvote: for when the facts irritate you. Well, here they are, from an admittedly biased site, but from everything I can tell, they're accurate: * Immigrants started 28% of all new U.S. businesses in 2011, despite accounting for just 12.9% of the U.S. population * Over the last 15 years, immigrants have increased the rate by which they start businesses by more than 50 percent, while the native-born have seen their business generation rate decline by 10 percent * Immigrants are now more than twice as likely to start a business as the native-born * Immigrants start more than 25% of all businesses in seven of the eight sectors of the economy that the U.S. government expects to grow the fastest over the next decade. These include health care and social assistance (28.7%), construction (31.8%), retail trade (29.1%) and leisure and hospitality (23.9%), among others http://www.renewoureconomy.org/index.php?q=open-for-business http://www.renewoureconomy.org/index.php?q=open-for-business
  - Goladus 14y ago
    > Ah, the downvote: for when the facts irritate you. For when the facts are absent and even if they were there fail to adequately address the point that was made. I did not feel like a tedious debate. But since you insist and were helpful enough to provide some data: > Immigrants are now more than twice as likely to start a business as the native-born The point was: most immigrants do not start companies. Based on your quoted fact: if native-born people have a x% chance to start a business, immigrants have a 2x% chance to start a business. That means 100%-2x% of immigrants are not likely to start businesses. If x is 5, that means 90% of immigrants will probably not start a business. To say it in plain English: your facts support the point that most immigrants to not start companies.
    - davidw 14y ago
      > your facts support the point that most immigrants to not start companies. Neither do must "natives". That wasn't my point. The point was that immigrants tend to be a bit more entrepreneurial, and start more companies. Many of those companies are not 'startups' like we discuss here, but still, some of them grown and provide employment.

davidw 14y ago

> The majority of immigrants aren't going to be the likes of Elon Musks or Sergey Brin. If you look at numbers, they will tell you that more immigrants than "natives" start businesses.

davidw 14y ago
Ah, the downvote: for when the facts irritate you. Well, here they are, from an admittedly biased site, but from everything I can tell, they're accurate: * Immigrants started 28% of all new U.S. businesses in 2011, despite accounting for just 12.9% of the U.S. population * Over the last 15 years, immigrants have increased the rate by which they start businesses by more than 50 percent, while the native-born have seen their business generation rate decline by 10 percent * Immigrants are now more than twice as likely to start a business as the native-born * Immigrants start more than 25% of all businesses in seven of the eight sectors of the economy that the U.S. government expects to grow the fastest over the next decade. These include health care and social assistance (28.7%), construction (31.8%), retail trade (29.1%) and leisure and hospitality (23.9%), among others http://www.renewoureconomy.org/index.php?q=open-for-business http://www.renewoureconomy.org/index.php?q=open-for-business
- Goladus 14y ago
  > Ah, the downvote: for when the facts irritate you. For when the facts are absent and even if they were there fail to adequately address the point that was made. I did not feel like a tedious debate. But since you insist and were helpful enough to provide some data: > Immigrants are now more than twice as likely to start a business as the native-born The point was: most immigrants do not start companies. Based on your quoted fact: if native-born people have a x% chance to start a business, immigrants have a 2x% chance to start a business. That means 100%-2x% of immigrants are not likely to start businesses. If x is 5, that means 90% of immigrants will probably not start a business. To say it in plain English: your facts support the point that most immigrants to not start companies.
  - davidw 14y ago
    > your facts support the point that most immigrants to not start companies. Neither do must "natives". That wasn't my point. The point was that immigrants tend to be a bit more entrepreneurial, and start more companies. Many of those companies are not 'startups' like we discuss here, but still, some of them grown and provide employment.