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You're blaming evolution for womens' generally execrable tastes in men, but the source of the problem is likely cultural and psychological. A large proportion

You're blaming evolution for womens' generally execrable tastes in men, but the source of the problem is likely cultural and psychological. A large proportion of American women have been raised with an unspoken and often subliminal belief that sex is filthy, painful and degrading. This association is formed at a young age and most women are not aware that they have it, but it leads them to become attracted to men who are boorish, stupid, and threatening, rather than the intelligent and decent guys. Often, they are actually completely incapable of being sexually attracted to men who don't threaten and degrade them on, at the least, a subconscious level. This is what's at hand in the case of "you're a nice guy, but I'm sorry, I'm just attracted to you. I really wish I was, but I'm not". This doesn't describe the majority of women or relationships, but it does describe nearly all of the sexually "loud" women. It seems paradoxical, but promiscuous women almost always have this subconscious distaste for sex, while relatively chaste women often have only a trace of it.

Eliezer 18y ago
Oh? And why doesn't the same conditioning work on men when it's tried on men?
- banned_man 18y ago
  I think there are a lot of men who have the same complex. There are a lot of men who are attracted to vapid and bitchy women-- the popular bubbly/slutty girl. They have a similar mindset: sex is an embarrassing, dissatisfying, and stupid activity in their worldview, and they seek out the sorts of women who are likely to confirm their nightmarish vision.
  - aswanson 18y ago
    sex is an embarrassing, dissatisfying, and stupid activity in their worldview, and they seek out the sorts of women who are likely to confirm their nightmarish vision. I don't think we need an HN poll on this to disconfirm. The mindset of most men chasing sex seems to be based on the fact that it feels very good. Period. No nightmares needed.
    - banned_man 18y ago
      For the loser men who chase bubbly/slutty girls, the most common sex act is being rejected. I wouldn't imagine that this feels good.
bokonist 18y ago
The generally chaste girls are the same way, they still go for the strong guy over the "nice" guy. Girls that have been taught all their life to go for the nice guy, still find themselves attracted to the bad boy. The evolutionary/genetic explanation seems to fit my observations the best. I actually think men get some blame for the "girls falling for aholes" problem. I think too many quality men listened to their mothers and school teachers, who said the key is to be a nice guy. The assholes never listened, and learned on the street to win girls via strength. Thus only the assholes act strong and get the girl, while the nerds lose out. The solution is that the good men need to grow a backbone. Then women will be able to find men who they are both attracted to and are good partners.
- banned_man 18y ago
  There's a difference between being physically strong, having a backbone as you put it, and being a badboy. There are extremely muscular men who are very nice people, and there's also a huge middle ground (into which most men fall) between being a boorish badboy and a spineless pansy. If a woman has a preference for muscular men, or skinny hipsters, or even fat men, that's fine. We all have our physical preferences. And the fact that women want to date men with enough spine to have meaningful character is a good thing. However, women who are attracted to loud, boorish, and stupid badboys are utter garbage. The attraction to badboys is not aesthetic; many badboys are out of shape and ugly. I think the appeal of the badboy is that it provides release from the pressure that is put on women to "marry up". It's not looked down upon for a man to marry a woman less ambitious and intelligent than he is, as long as she's good on her own merits (e.g. if he's a Wall Street quant with a 155 IQ, and she's in a lifestyle career and has a 130 IQ, that's fine, because she's still a smart woman who can hold her own in intelligent conversation). Women, however, are expected to marry men with at least the same level of earning potential and intelligence, because of a lingering concern with gender roles and the expectation that the man will be equal or dominant. This obviously places a lot of pressure on high-power women. The appeal of the badboy is that, although he's virtually never intelligent or ambitious, he's dominant on account of his sheer arrogance and narcissism, but at the same time worthless enough that he can be flippantly discarded. This enables the woman to enter a relationship where she takes a submissive role, but one that has an "off switch"; she can leave without pain, since it's unlikely that she'll form an emotional attachment to such a useless and defective man. [*Edited for clarity @ 12:26]

Eliezer 18y ago

Oh? And why doesn't the same conditioning work on men when it's tried on men?

banned_man 18y ago
I think there are a lot of men who have the same complex. There are a lot of men who are attracted to vapid and bitchy women-- the popular bubbly/slutty girl. They have a similar mindset: sex is an embarrassing, dissatisfying, and stupid activity in their worldview, and they seek out the sorts of women who are likely to confirm their nightmarish vision.
- aswanson 18y ago
  sex is an embarrassing, dissatisfying, and stupid activity in their worldview, and they seek out the sorts of women who are likely to confirm their nightmarish vision. I don't think we need an HN poll on this to disconfirm. The mindset of most men chasing sex seems to be based on the fact that it feels very good. Period. No nightmares needed.
  - banned_man 18y ago
    For the loser men who chase bubbly/slutty girls, the most common sex act is being rejected. I wouldn't imagine that this feels good.

bokonist 18y ago

The generally chaste girls are the same way, they still go for the strong guy over the "nice" guy. Girls that have been taught all their life to go for the nice guy, still find themselves attracted to the bad boy. The evolutionary/genetic explanation seems to fit my observations the best. I actually think men get some blame for the "girls falling for aholes" problem. I think too many quality men listened to their mothers and school teachers, who said the key is to be a nice guy. The assholes never listened, and learned on the street to win girls via strength. Thus only the assholes act strong and get the girl, while the nerds lose out. The solution is that the good men need to grow a backbone. Then women will be able to find men who they are both attracted to and are good partners.

banned_man 18y ago
There's a difference between being physically strong, having a backbone as you put it, and being a badboy. There are extremely muscular men who are very nice people, and there's also a huge middle ground (into which most men fall) between being a boorish badboy and a spineless pansy. If a woman has a preference for muscular men, or skinny hipsters, or even fat men, that's fine. We all have our physical preferences. And the fact that women want to date men with enough spine to have meaningful character is a good thing. However, women who are attracted to loud, boorish, and stupid badboys are utter garbage. The attraction to badboys is not aesthetic; many badboys are out of shape and ugly. I think the appeal of the badboy is that it provides release from the pressure that is put on women to "marry up". It's not looked down upon for a man to marry a woman less ambitious and intelligent than he is, as long as she's good on her own merits (e.g. if he's a Wall Street quant with a 155 IQ, and she's in a lifestyle career and has a 130 IQ, that's fine, because she's still a smart woman who can hold her own in intelligent conversation). Women, however, are expected to marry men with at least the same level of earning potential and intelligence, because of a lingering concern with gender roles and the expectation that the man will be equal or dominant. This obviously places a lot of pressure on high-power women. The appeal of the badboy is that, although he's virtually never intelligent or ambitious, he's dominant on account of his sheer arrogance and narcissism, but at the same time worthless enough that he can be flippantly discarded. This enables the woman to enter a relationship where she takes a submissive role, but one that has an "off switch"; she can leave without pain, since it's unlikely that she'll form an emotional attachment to such a useless and defective man. [*Edited for clarity @ 12:26]