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Why Being Smart Won't Get You Laid

172 points by alexitosrv 18y ago

sown 18y ago
Being smart got me a well paying job. For about 3 hours of work I can make it happen + tips. But seriously, I'm not willing to "get some" because it requires me to do things I don't want or willing to. It's sort of like PG's essay on popularity.
- anamax 18y ago
  > But seriously, I'm not willing to "get some" because it requires me to do things I don't want or willing to. What are the things that you don't want to do or are unwilling to do that you think would get you laid?
  - dangrover 18y ago
    I kinda feel that way too. From reading all the advice, I figure I'd have to have a wholly different personality when around girls and do all this work being this fake cocky jerk.
    - anamax 18y ago
      I've found that three factors are sufficient (in no particular order). (1) Be interesting. (2) Be interested. (3) Be clean. They don't guarantee success with every woman in every situation, but if she's available, they give you a decent shot, and not just at getting laid. Yes, some other things work in some situations.
  - sown 18y ago
    According to my mom, I am unwilling to make any attempt to improve myself in any way
    - flinchreel 18y ago
      According to your mom, I don't need to.
jkkramer 18y ago
All you really need to get laid is a willingness to eat humble pie while you climb the social learning curve. It's simple: smile, make eye contact, show interest, ask questions. You will probably feel like an idiot. Repeat until confidence outweighs fear. If you're smart, use your brain for wit, not for showing off.
- sown 18y ago
  Also, I need to lose about a hundred pounds and do something about my jebediah beard.
  - potatolicious 18y ago
    Appearance I find is not a huge factor... If you excude confidence and know how to talk, you will still get laid.
    - mynameishere 18y ago
      It's true! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydpl0bgL_Kw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydpl0bgL_Kw
    - donaq 18y ago
      Not necessarily. Or rather, this works more for males than females. As Eddie Murphy once put it succinctly, "But you gotta be beautiful too. I don't want no funny, ugly bitch," or something like that. I find that appearances usually matter more to males than females.
    - sown 18y ago
      The ladies are not fond of awesome UNIX beards.
      - potatolicious 18y ago
        They're not fond of it, but I'm saying it's something that can be overcome without resorting to shaving off your luscious chin-mane :P
erlanger 18y ago
Being smart, pragmatic, and unscrupulous will get you laid quite a bit. I can't, and don't want to, figure out the last part.
- gilesgoatboy 18y ago
  unscrupulous my ass! get therapy
- dasil003 18y ago
  Fair enough, but don't let the unscrupulous part be a story you tell yourself to justify why you've never figured out how to get laid.
  - deleted 18y ago
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  - erlanger 18y ago
    Um...here's hoping that an insightful comment on the topic of geeks getting laid doesn't necessarily imply that I don't. Hope you got your giggles though.
    - dasil003 18y ago
      Of course I can't speak to you personally, but I've definitely seen cases of exactly what I described. It wasn't a joke.
      - erlanger 18y ago
        Notice I said "quite a bit," not "when appropriate."
        Nwallins 18y ago
        Wow, that took me a while to unwind. It wasn't immediately clear to me what "I can't, and don't want to, figure out the last part" referred to. You were expressing apprehension at exploring why those particular attributes confer a high success rate. i.e. Why might bad behavior be rewarded?
deleted 18y ago
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vaksel 18y ago
simply earn a ton of money, and your prospects to get laid will suddenly increase
- bokonist 18y ago
  I'm surprised this comment has so many up votes. Money helps a bit, but trying to earn more money just to get laid is ridiculous. There are many easy and fun techniques that are far more effective. Examples: carry yourself with confidence, be social, cultivate an aura of mystery an allure, do interesting things, become a better conversationalist, be fearless in approaching girls, practice speaking to random girls and trying to entertain them, etc, etc.
  - vaksel 18y ago
    don't forget to workout, being in shape will pretty much cover a lot of those things
- ambulatorybird 18y ago
  Alas, being smart doesn't ensure wealth, either.
  - wenbert 18y ago
    I would have to agree with this. Being smart does not guarantee wealth. There are a lot bright people who got good grades in HighSchool, finished college, etc. This is because they have to -- get good grades. But after graduation, it becomes an entirely different story. It takes more than brains to get rich. Opportunity, guts, risk-taking are just some of the factors... Just my two-cents...
- sachinag 18y ago
  Then why did Charlie Sheen keep buying hookers from Heidi Fleiss? He wasn't just rich, he was famous too.
  - cellis 18y ago
noodle 18y ago
being smart will get you laid, for sure. being raised in a family/culture that quashes social interaction and activities is the thing that will salt your game. edit: pulled it back to original version
- mariorz 18y ago
  Your point came across much better in the original version: "being smart will get you laid, for sure. being raised in a family/culture that quashes social interaction and activities is the thing that will salt your game."
  - noodle 18y ago
    guess i should've stuck with my gut reaction. i appreciate the input.
hypermatt 18y ago
Its all about emotions
deleted 18y ago
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sachinag 18y ago
Frankly, there's an opportunity here: make a dating site just for smart people. Don't just ask about people's alma mater, ask for their GPA and major. Don't just let people say what they do, ask what their employer and title is. Ask for SAT, GRE, GMAT, LSAT, whatever other scores. Then let your users screen on the stuff that they use as a proxy for smart. We all have different definitions for smart; just try to accommodate as many of them as possible. Women complain all the time about having to act dumber to find a man because the dumb men are the ones who ask them out.
- chris11 18y ago
  There are already service that somewhat meet those needs. Eg: http://www.rightstuffdating.com/ http://www.rightstuffdating.com/. This site limits members to specific schools. Not all of the accepted schools are ivy league quality, and you could probably get in from a school not on the list. But the service is being advertised as for single adults from elite universities. There are other similar dating services. Plus there is always Mensa and other high-iq societies. People have said that Mensa has just turned into a club to find people to date. Here's Kathleen O's experience with using Mensa for dating:http://www.yelp.com/topic/chicago-a-speed-dating-service-like-no-other-regular-people-need-not-apply http://www.yelp.com/topic/chicago-a-speed-dating-service-lik...
- unalone 18y ago
  The problem with that is that when you exclude people based on something like GPA/major, you're going to attract a very ugly sort of good-grades person.
- asciilifeform 18y ago
  >make a dating site just for smart people This has been done. (http://www.intelligentpeople.com http://www.intelligentpeople.com) They seem to use the same test for every applicant (a dusty scan of the famous Raven's Progressive Matrices.) So the system is easy to game, if you so wished.
blader 18y ago
Being smart won't get you a lot of things. OTOH, being smart at getting yourself laid will almost certainly get you laid.
- dasil003 18y ago
  That's a tautology.
  - blader 18y ago
    You can be smart at a skill without guarantee of success.
    - pavel_lishin 18y ago
      You almost certainly provided a guarantee.
- adrianwaj 18y ago
  learn his/her buttons
gilesgoatboy 18y ago
The title infuriates me. Such arrogant, clueless, priveleged, rich-kid bullshit. He's not talking about smart people - he's talking about academic overachievers. Going to Harvard isn't the same thing as being smart. I knew plenty of kids in my high school who went on to Ivy League schools. Very few of them were remarkably intelligent. All were remarkably dilligent and remarkably obedient. Dilligence is a wonderful quality; obedience I personally do not find very useful. Anyway, the rest of the article is beneath criticism, just wanted to object to the sloppy logic in the title.
zvikara 18y ago
> Smart people spent more time on achievements than on relationships when growing up. More details about it from pg : http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html
bryarcanium 18y ago
"Unless you actually convey femininity as a woman or masculinity as a man, you're not going to attract a suitable companion of the opposite sex." How... heteronormative... of him. I'll pick my own brand of suitable, thankyouverymuch.
- nopassrecover 18y ago
  I'd imagine there's probably a completely different set of rules for homosexual attraction though.
  - Tsagadai 18y ago
    There are actually no rules for homosexual or heterosexual attraction. People are far too complex for that sort of categorisation.
    - pavel_lishin 18y ago
      And global weather patterns are too complex to predict.
bokonist 18y ago
Woman did not evolve to find smart guys or "nice" guys attractive. Woman are programmed to find the leader of the pack attractive, even if said leader is an ahole. Fortunately, most well raised woman were taught with their rational minds to be wary of the jerk and to go for the gentleman. So rationally they want the nice guy, but the animal mind wants the leader of the pack. This creates conflict. If you've ever been in a situation where you've had a close female friend tell you - "you're a nice guy, but I'm sorry, I'm just attracted to you. I really wish I was, but I'm not" - you know what I mean. The answer is not to become to an asshole, but you should cultivate an air of being more like a leader of the pack. Note you do not have to actually be a leader of a group of guys to do this. It's just about sending the right signals to the female's animal mind. Things you can do to give that impression are: be confident when approaching girls, do not be needy or give off signs of desperation, tease her, be interesting, give off a sense of bemused indifference, don't act like your trying too hard, do not be afraid to touch her on the arm or shoulder, flirt with her friends, etc. I learned this stuff through experience and friends, but there are sources on the internet that can greatly speed up the process. You can read the archives of Roissy's blog, but be warned, it's very not PC - http://roissy.wordpress.com/ http://roissy.wordpress.com/
- alyx 18y ago
  This Roissy character has some amazingly clever, witty and all around awesome posts!
- banned_man 18y ago
  You're blaming evolution for womens' generally execrable tastes in men, but the source of the problem is likely cultural and psychological. A large proportion of American women have been raised with an unspoken and often subliminal belief that sex is filthy, painful and degrading. This association is formed at a young age and most women are not aware that they have it, but it leads them to become attracted to men who are boorish, stupid, and threatening, rather than the intelligent and decent guys. Often, they are actually completely incapable of being sexually attracted to men who don't threaten and degrade them on, at the least, a subconscious level. This is what's at hand in the case of "you're a nice guy, but I'm sorry, I'm just attracted to you. I really wish I was, but I'm not". This doesn't describe the majority of women or relationships, but it does describe nearly all of the sexually "loud" women. It seems paradoxical, but promiscuous women almost always have this subconscious distaste for sex, while relatively chaste women often have only a trace of it.
mattlanger 18y ago
For whatever reason this really struck a nerve for me. It's erected on a false dichotomy: "given a choice between happy-go-lucky and picky-but-lonely, happy sounds like more fun." I don't personally measure my completeness or incompleteness by my romantic status. My estimation of self-worth comes instead from my research, my projects, and my work. It's an arbitrary preference, much as it's arbitrary for some people to feel completed by a union with someone else. I'm smart, I'm driven, and I'm incredibly picky when it comes to the people I socialize with. Life is short, and just like everyone else does I make personal value judgments as to how best spend what little time I have. And in the end I'm quite happy--and still single. Go figure.
MaysonL 18y ago
Being smart can get you laid - you just have to find women who find smart guys attractive (such as the lady who was my boss at my first programming job). Such women do exist, though they're not all that common.
- carterschonwald 18y ago
  I second this.. I've found that just being overwhelmingly interesting is like candy to the right girls, and independent of whether its just friends or more, those gals are a pleasure to be around.
charlesju 18y ago
1. Sex is overrated. Like they said in the 40 year old virgin, don't put the pussy on a pedestal. If someone doesn't like you for who you are, they are probably not worth the time to sleep with. Find someone you can love, it's a much more rewarding experience, trust me. 2. If you are bent on being a "player", and you are smart (truly smart, not just smart as in able to program smart), then you can probably learn how to do it. Human beings are not that complicated.
- rarrrrrr 18y ago
  1 - I would argue that truly good sex, despite all hype, is yet highly underrated. I expect few people experience it though. Contributing factors include accumulated skill, anatomical compatibility, mindset, mood, physical fitness, etc. It's an outlier.
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jlees 18y ago
An incredibly masculine-focused article even if it made plenty of attempts to try to generalise across both the sexes. Being a smart woman gives you totally different dating prospects than being a smart guy (and not just the obvious). Seriously. It also gives you reasons to turn off the opposite sex that don't seem to be mentioned in the article - for example a lot of women play it dumb for fear of intimidating the guy they're flirting with. I've even caught myself doing it, which is saying a lot - I wear my IQ and education like a suit of armour most of the time.
- DanielBMarkham 18y ago
  I wear my IQ and education like a suit of armour most of the time It's interesting how smart people build up various defenses to keep people at bay -- including hyper-competitiveness. I remind my wife that you're supposed to let the boys win once in a while when we play cards, and we both get a laugh. She is merciless on my ego. But there's something to be said for fitting in, going with the flow, taking things as they happen. That's not to say to act dumb, just being in the moment at a rock concert probably isn't going to elicit Shakespearean quotes. There's a fine line between being smart and acting smart. Appearing smart is not necessarily a desirably externalized attribute in all social situations.
- _pius 18y ago
  for example a lot of women play it dumb for fear of intimidating the guy they're flirting with Ironically enough, this doesn't seem like a very intelligent strategy. I definitely get it, but it doesn't seem like a very wise approach in the long-term. What kind of partner would you end up with by hiding one of your most prized qualities?
  - endtime 18y ago
    Agreed, though really this generalizes to "be yourself if you want to meet someone with whom to have a relationship."
deleted 18y ago
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c00p3r 18y ago
That is just an advertisement of very well positioned niche book - no one thinks he or she is dumb. Here's the thing: your romantic success has nothing to do with your mental jewelry and everything to do with how you make the other person feel. - this thing was painted on every wall from the beginning of the time. The problem is much more difficult and this approach is suitable perhaps only for the Cosmopolitan magazine. The Freud's lectures of psyhoanalysis can be useful as an bird-eye overview of the problem. The main idea is about altering a personal history to get rid of a fixations, regressions, and other things which were accumulated from the past and especially childhood, developing new habits, changing yourself. And there is a top-secret-great-magic-word: practice. If one in in his/her thirties and still looking at this kind of books or texts that simply indicates the very serious problem which requires an intensive therapy. Time waits for no one
frossie 18y ago
What a load of patronising, stereotyping... argh, I won't say it here. For starters, I see no evidence that this is a problem (anecdotes, anecdotes). Anybody can get laid. Finding someone who wants to put up with you the rest of the time is the true accomplishment.
Tsagadai 18y ago
The guy has a number of things backward or set in stone. First off you can have your cake and eat it. You don't actually need to cease being anything to get laid you just have to look harder. Honesetly, it is just that easy, somewhere out there is a woman/man/transgender looking for someone just like you. Hell, there are probably 10 people like that in every country. Second, the author takes a very macho outlook on dating. You don't have to do that. People are quite varied. Some like X, some prefer Y and some really love Q. His entire 'be the (wo)man' bit just smacks of heterocentricism and ignorance. Some people like the same. If that is you I encourage you to pursue that because you will be far, far happier than if you repress who you really are. Third. This point is just my advice. Don't deride people or look down on them. You will find love in peculiar places if only you look. So you're smart. Big deal. Don't dismiss that girl who left school before senior or the guy who never went to college. There are different forms of intelligence and you can find intelligent people who are not in the mold of the traditionally smart, educated and successful. And lastly, get out of the house/town/country. You will never find anyone, not even for a date if you don't get away from your personal comfort zone. I'm not dismissing those who only want to meet people through friends only that you must be truly lucky to find love that way. It is always best to expand yourself and head to the horizon of the known.
davidw 18y ago
One thing that helped me a lot: investing some money in some salsa dancing lessons. First of all, I actually enjoy it, it's fun (if you don't like it you wont' get far). Second, it's sort of cool, compared to, say, talking about startups and computers with someone who is potentially not interested in either one. Also, it's something where practice does pay off, and where you can't fake it, so investing some time will get you results. It's a real dance, too, between a man and a woman (well, a couple in any case, but we'll leave out the PC stuff for the sake of convenience) where the man leads and the woman follows, and they hold on to one another, not one of those flaily club type dance things. You can learn a lot about someone in a 2 or 3 minute dance with them, actually, and if you go to the right sort of clubs, people often change partners, so you have the chance to dance with lots of different people (so it's sort of like speed dating, but not so silly) and see what works out. Most places I've ever been to, people are having fun and smile, which I find a lot more attractive than the pouty, I'm-too-cool look. Oh, and finally, women who know how to really dance salsa are hot. Moving and swaying like that really adds something! Getting up the confidence to ask people to dance is really good too. You'll get shot down lots too, but you learn to deal with that.
- jacoblyles 18y ago
  Sounds like a great idea, especially for people that spend most of their time in an engineering school. It puts you in a different crowd and takes you outside of the sexless place you spend your days.
- andyking 18y ago
  Totally. I did it not so long ago (still am) and it's a brilliant confidence boost; everyone's there for the same reason, so it's not like just going to some club and hoping someone there will talk to you! You've got something in common, something to have a laugh about with every person there. Go into it with the right attitude and you will have fun. Don't fall into the trap that some men do and think "ooh, such-and-such a magazine says salsa classes will get me laid", cause on their own they won't. Girls there can spot the guys who go there with one intention from miles off and won't dance with them. Go there with the intention to have a bit of a giggle, meet a few new people, make a bit of a tit of yourself on occasion (something we ALL need!) and learn some sexy moves while you're at it and the world is your oyster. (Sorry for the disjointed response, I'm rushing out of the door! Will probably come back and write more later.)
edgeztv 18y ago
Bull. There are plenty of smart ppl successful in this area just as there are plenty of average guys unsuccessful at it.
strlen 18y ago
As I mentioned in a different comment, I think the issue boils down to having unrealistic expectations -- and these unrealistic expectations preventing smart individuals from getting any sort of experience in dating (which builds confidence) or finding out what they really want (e.g. Are you unable to date someone who doesn't share your political views? Who isn't a fellow nerd? who doesn't have a specific body type? You'll never whether any of these "must haves" is really something you're looking for until you try). In addition, getting into physical shape wouldn't hurt: initial attraction (what gets you the first date) is still mostly physical and being in good shape makes one confident (which gets you past the first three dates). Being in shape will also give you far more energy for 80 work weeks and all night hackathons (in no way, will being physically fit magically make you into a "jock").
cturner 18y ago
Happy coincidence - work is sending me to Duesseldorf on Monday!
seshagiric 18y ago
It won't get you laid-off either!
adrianwaj 18y ago
I'll sum it up: for a nice guy, the onus is on the female to say "yes" to his advances (if any) and for the dark-triad male, the onus is on her to say "no" to his advances. As sexuality today is still very much mostly a powerful unconscious drive, it is harder for most females to say "yes" than "no," because saying yes is a conscious decision and the female instead finds it easier to remain passive to her powerful unconscious side around these aholes, and which is why she's even interested in either in the first place. Aholes can muscle in on the nice guy, and we have not reached the tipping point for many females to take better control of their sexuality. In the end you can be a nice guy, but when the ahole comes along, be prepared. Don't leave it up to her to say yes.
- ahpeeyem 18y ago
  I think you're definitely onto something here, and I think the guy who puts himself out there and puts the onus on the woman to say 'no' instead of waiting for her to say 'yes' is more successful for a few reasons. 1. As you say, it's easier and less risky for the woman to remain passive and not make the conscious decision to say yes to the 'nice' guy who's waiting for her. 2. There is a lot of social pressure on females to not be a 'slut'. This is becoming less than it used to be but is also subtle and ingrained into society. By remaining passive and letting the man chase, she avoids the possibility of seeming promiscuous. 3. Some of the other comments are saying this as well: the theory that women have evolved to be attracted to a leader. Leadership, strength and confidence are demonstrated by a guy who will go out of his way to pursue a woman, even despite her initial coquettishness and playing hard to get. By doing this he shows that he's a confident man who has balls and is not afraid to get what he wants - themselves apparently attractive qualities in a bloke.
  - adrianwaj 18y ago
    Also, the alpha and dark males probably get the bigger rejections, and that's what the nice guys are seeking to avoid. So that's another factor for the struggling males, being able to pursue but then being able to pick yourself up after a rejection. There's another factor at work to, 'consent.' A nice guy wants the interaction to be consensual, and it should be, but in a way she doesn't because as you say there's a stigma to it, but then again if she never gives consent, she'll not only end up attracting the aholes and be quietly looking for them to satiate her 'guilty pleasures', but also on the downside she'll lock herself out of the nice guys because giving consent will be too painful, and when she does, he may be ultimately turned off. In the end, she'll marry a somewhat inexperienced nice bloke to raise the kids after being used and abused by the aholes, and she may cheat on him if her issues are unresolved.
dejb 18y ago
This is a such well written sales copy. I followed it through to the 'book' and eventually came across one of those scamy looking very long sales pages. Check it out http://www.thetaoofdating.com/page3.php http://www.thetaoofdating.com/page3.php I'm not saying this means the article or product isn't valid or interesting but it does look like they have successful gamed HN.
chiffonade 18y ago
80% of guys have a tough time getting laid. It has nothing to do with being smart or not.
ftse 18y ago
OK, I've not read the article or any of the comments. My theory is, well, it all comes down to Game Theory. All things being equal, if you are nice, an arsehole or rich, if a guy/gal suspects you are _significantly_ smarter than they are, they will (un-)consciously believe you will soon find a 'better' partner and move on. So they don't invest in you => you don't get laid.
trapper 18y ago
It's funny. Most of the people I know didn't take advice a) loosen up, they took b) move, and went to europe following a smart female they met during postgrad.
- ajuc 18y ago
  Hey, you smart Americans, left our smart women to us :)
Ras_ 18y ago
Consider joining Carrotmob or some other "semi-hippie" environmental group. Your odds might improve - or at least you're helping to save the world with your talent.
Vivtek 18y ago
This is probably unreasonable, but three mentions of amoeba in terms of sexual reproduction really rankle.
gits_tokyo 18y ago
if one would realize it's all a hologram, that there's nothing to lose or gain except the amount of value one actually perceives. is it necessary for survival? i think the problem areas lay in the fact that everyone is buying into the greatest hood wink of life and turning it into something greater than it really should be.
ivankirigin 18y ago
I met Abby in an honors algorithms class.
asdlfj2sd 18y ago
I know I am going to get down voted for this, but here it goes anyway. This is how reddit went to hell. From interesting articles, to interesting articles which are also group therapy for a prominent minority of smart people with some serious problems. And that's the thing, most smart people, the countless I've met, the dozens of brilliant engineers I work with every day, they have none of these problems. They are family men, never had those problems. There are some unfortunate and very troubled souls, and they turn smart social news sites into sad group therapy.
Goladus 18y ago
I don't think smart men have more problems getting laid, I think they just tend to whine louder about it.
ajuc 18y ago
I've always been shy and had troubles with relations with other people. I've met my wife by chance, and it was miracle that she didn't put me down when I've told her repeatedly "I'm so boring, really, let's speak about you" on our first "date" :). I was expecting women will appreciate that I'm so humble etc. It turns out they just thought I'm really boring, if I say so myself. So this is lesson number one - don't assume women will appreciate that you are humble. Still - my wife somewhat endured my "I'm so humble and nice etc" talk, and we're married now, so there is a chance to everybody :) So - lesson number 2 is - when you meet right kind of person at right moment in life, it is really difficult to screw things up. So be yourself and don't worry - your time will come. Just remember to be open to new people and new experiences. PS when you are shy it helps a lot when you think about everything you do in terms of "what would be the worst outcome of this if I screw up?" It is often the case that the worst outcome is exactly the same that if you don't do anything. So expected value is higher than 0 :). For me it helped a lot.
- pavel_lishin 18y ago
  when you are shy it helps a lot when you think about everything you do in terms of "what would be the worst outcome of this if I screw up?" Sounds like a quick trip to panic attack city.
mojuba 18y ago
By virtue (or vice) of being smart, you eliminate most of the planet's inhabitants as a dating prospect. Dear Nature, I would like to eliminate most of the planet's inhabitants as a dating prospect by virtue or vice of me being smart. Thank you.
dkarl 18y ago
I thought I was smart. I thought I was right. I thought it better not to fight. I thought there was a virtue, in always being cool. So it came time to fight, I thought "I'll just step aside," and that the time will prove you wrong. And that you would be a fool. To fight is to defend. If it's not now then tell me when would be the time that you would stand up and be a man. For to lose I could accept, but to surrender I just wept, and regretted this moment that I was the fool. 'Cause I'm a man, not a boy, and there are things you can't avoid. You have to face them when you're not prepared to face them. If I could, I would, but you're with him, now it'd do no good. I should've fought him. But instead I let him... I let him take it.

172 points by alexitosrv 18y ago

sown 18y ago

Being smart got me a well paying job. For about 3 hours of work I can make it happen + tips. But seriously, I'm not willing to "get some" because it requires me to do things I don't want or willing to. It's sort of like PG's essay on popularity.

anamax 18y ago
> But seriously, I'm not willing to "get some" because it requires me to do things I don't want or willing to. What are the things that you don't want to do or are unwilling to do that you think would get you laid?
- dangrover 18y ago
  I kinda feel that way too. From reading all the advice, I figure I'd have to have a wholly different personality when around girls and do all this work being this fake cocky jerk.
  - anamax 18y ago
    I've found that three factors are sufficient (in no particular order). (1) Be interesting. (2) Be interested. (3) Be clean. They don't guarantee success with every woman in every situation, but if she's available, they give you a decent shot, and not just at getting laid. Yes, some other things work in some situations.
- sown 18y ago
  According to my mom, I am unwilling to make any attempt to improve myself in any way
  - flinchreel 18y ago
    According to your mom, I don't need to.

jkkramer 18y ago

All you really need to get laid is a willingness to eat humble pie while you climb the social learning curve. It's simple: smile, make eye contact, show interest, ask questions. You will probably feel like an idiot. Repeat until confidence outweighs fear. If you're smart, use your brain for wit, not for showing off.

sown 18y ago
Also, I need to lose about a hundred pounds and do something about my jebediah beard.
- potatolicious 18y ago
  Appearance I find is not a huge factor... If you excude confidence and know how to talk, you will still get laid.
  - mynameishere 18y ago
    It's true! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydpl0bgL_Kw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydpl0bgL_Kw
  - donaq 18y ago
    Not necessarily. Or rather, this works more for males than females. As Eddie Murphy once put it succinctly, "But you gotta be beautiful too. I don't want no funny, ugly bitch," or something like that. I find that appearances usually matter more to males than females.
  - sown 18y ago
    The ladies are not fond of awesome UNIX beards.
    - potatolicious 18y ago
      They're not fond of it, but I'm saying it's something that can be overcome without resorting to shaving off your luscious chin-mane :P

erlanger 18y ago

Being smart, pragmatic, and unscrupulous will get you laid quite a bit. I can't, and don't want to, figure out the last part.

gilesgoatboy 18y ago
unscrupulous my ass! get therapy
dasil003 18y ago
Fair enough, but don't let the unscrupulous part be a story you tell yourself to justify why you've never figured out how to get laid.
- deleted 18y ago
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- erlanger 18y ago
  Um...here's hoping that an insightful comment on the topic of geeks getting laid doesn't necessarily imply that I don't. Hope you got your giggles though.
  - dasil003 18y ago
    Of course I can't speak to you personally, but I've definitely seen cases of exactly what I described. It wasn't a joke.
    - erlanger 18y ago
      Notice I said "quite a bit," not "when appropriate."
      - Nwallins 18y ago
        Wow, that took me a while to unwind. It wasn't immediately clear to me what "I can't, and don't want to, figure out the last part" referred to. You were expressing apprehension at exploring why those particular attributes confer a high success rate. i.e. Why might bad behavior be rewarded?

deleted 18y ago

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vaksel 18y ago

simply earn a ton of money, and your prospects to get laid will suddenly increase

bokonist 18y ago
I'm surprised this comment has so many up votes. Money helps a bit, but trying to earn more money just to get laid is ridiculous. There are many easy and fun techniques that are far more effective. Examples: carry yourself with confidence, be social, cultivate an aura of mystery an allure, do interesting things, become a better conversationalist, be fearless in approaching girls, practice speaking to random girls and trying to entertain them, etc, etc.
- vaksel 18y ago
  don't forget to workout, being in shape will pretty much cover a lot of those things
ambulatorybird 18y ago
Alas, being smart doesn't ensure wealth, either.
- wenbert 18y ago
  I would have to agree with this. Being smart does not guarantee wealth. There are a lot bright people who got good grades in HighSchool, finished college, etc. This is because they have to -- get good grades. But after graduation, it becomes an entirely different story. It takes more than brains to get rich. Opportunity, guts, risk-taking are just some of the factors... Just my two-cents...
sachinag 18y ago
Then why did Charlie Sheen keep buying hookers from Heidi Fleiss? He wasn't just rich, he was famous too.
- cellis 18y ago

noodle 18y ago

being smart will get you laid, for sure. being raised in a family/culture that quashes social interaction and activities is the thing that will salt your game. edit: pulled it back to original version

mariorz 18y ago
Your point came across much better in the original version: "being smart will get you laid, for sure. being raised in a family/culture that quashes social interaction and activities is the thing that will salt your game."
- noodle 18y ago
  guess i should've stuck with my gut reaction. i appreciate the input.

hypermatt 18y ago

Its all about emotions

deleted 18y ago

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sachinag 18y ago

Frankly, there's an opportunity here: make a dating site just for smart people. Don't just ask about people's alma mater, ask for their GPA and major. Don't just let people say what they do, ask what their employer and title is. Ask for SAT, GRE, GMAT, LSAT, whatever other scores. Then let your users screen on the stuff that they use as a proxy for smart. We all have different definitions for smart; just try to accommodate as many of them as possible. Women complain all the time about having to act dumber to find a man because the dumb men are the ones who ask them out.

chris11 18y ago
There are already service that somewhat meet those needs. Eg: http://www.rightstuffdating.com/ http://www.rightstuffdating.com/. This site limits members to specific schools. Not all of the accepted schools are ivy league quality, and you could probably get in from a school not on the list. But the service is being advertised as for single adults from elite universities. There are other similar dating services. Plus there is always Mensa and other high-iq societies. People have said that Mensa has just turned into a club to find people to date. Here's Kathleen O's experience with using Mensa for dating:http://www.yelp.com/topic/chicago-a-speed-dating-service-like-no-other-regular-people-need-not-apply http://www.yelp.com/topic/chicago-a-speed-dating-service-lik...
unalone 18y ago
The problem with that is that when you exclude people based on something like GPA/major, you're going to attract a very ugly sort of good-grades person.
asciilifeform 18y ago
>make a dating site just for smart people This has been done. (http://www.intelligentpeople.com http://www.intelligentpeople.com) They seem to use the same test for every applicant (a dusty scan of the famous Raven's Progressive Matrices.) So the system is easy to game, if you so wished.

blader 18y ago

Being smart won't get you a lot of things. OTOH, being smart at getting yourself laid will almost certainly get you laid.

dasil003 18y ago
That's a tautology.
- blader 18y ago
  You can be smart at a skill without guarantee of success.
  - pavel_lishin 18y ago
    You almost certainly provided a guarantee.
adrianwaj 18y ago
learn his/her buttons

gilesgoatboy 18y ago

The title infuriates me. Such arrogant, clueless, priveleged, rich-kid bullshit. He's not talking about smart people - he's talking about academic overachievers. Going to Harvard isn't the same thing as being smart. I knew plenty of kids in my high school who went on to Ivy League schools. Very few of them were remarkably intelligent. All were remarkably dilligent and remarkably obedient. Dilligence is a wonderful quality; obedience I personally do not find very useful. Anyway, the rest of the article is beneath criticism, just wanted to object to the sloppy logic in the title.

zvikara 18y ago

> Smart people spent more time on achievements than on relationships when growing up. More details about it from pg : http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html

bryarcanium 18y ago

"Unless you actually convey femininity as a woman or masculinity as a man, you're not going to attract a suitable companion of the opposite sex." How... heteronormative... of him. I'll pick my own brand of suitable, thankyouverymuch.

nopassrecover 18y ago
I'd imagine there's probably a completely different set of rules for homosexual attraction though.
- Tsagadai 18y ago
  There are actually no rules for homosexual or heterosexual attraction. People are far too complex for that sort of categorisation.
  - pavel_lishin 18y ago
    And global weather patterns are too complex to predict.

bokonist 18y ago

Woman did not evolve to find smart guys or "nice" guys attractive. Woman are programmed to find the leader of the pack attractive, even if said leader is an ahole. Fortunately, most well raised woman were taught with their rational minds to be wary of the jerk and to go for the gentleman. So rationally they want the nice guy, but the animal mind wants the leader of the pack. This creates conflict. If you've ever been in a situation where you've had a close female friend tell you - "you're a nice guy, but I'm sorry, I'm just attracted to you. I really wish I was, but I'm not" - you know what I mean. The answer is not to become to an asshole, but you should cultivate an air of being more like a leader of the pack. Note you do not have to actually be a leader of a group of guys to do this. It's just about sending the right signals to the female's animal mind. Things you can do to give that impression are: be confident when approaching girls, do not be needy or give off signs of desperation, tease her, be interesting, give off a sense of bemused indifference, don't act like your trying too hard, do not be afraid to touch her on the arm or shoulder, flirt with her friends, etc. I learned this stuff through experience and friends, but there are sources on the internet that can greatly speed up the process. You can read the archives of Roissy's blog, but be warned, it's very not PC - http://roissy.wordpress.com/ http://roissy.wordpress.com/

alyx 18y ago
This Roissy character has some amazingly clever, witty and all around awesome posts!
banned_man 18y ago
You're blaming evolution for womens' generally execrable tastes in men, but the source of the problem is likely cultural and psychological. A large proportion of American women have been raised with an unspoken and often subliminal belief that sex is filthy, painful and degrading. This association is formed at a young age and most women are not aware that they have it, but it leads them to become attracted to men who are boorish, stupid, and threatening, rather than the intelligent and decent guys. Often, they are actually completely incapable of being sexually attracted to men who don't threaten and degrade them on, at the least, a subconscious level. This is what's at hand in the case of "you're a nice guy, but I'm sorry, I'm just attracted to you. I really wish I was, but I'm not". This doesn't describe the majority of women or relationships, but it does describe nearly all of the sexually "loud" women. It seems paradoxical, but promiscuous women almost always have this subconscious distaste for sex, while relatively chaste women often have only a trace of it.

mattlanger 18y ago

For whatever reason this really struck a nerve for me. It's erected on a false dichotomy: "given a choice between happy-go-lucky and picky-but-lonely, happy sounds like more fun." I don't personally measure my completeness or incompleteness by my romantic status. My estimation of self-worth comes instead from my research, my projects, and my work. It's an arbitrary preference, much as it's arbitrary for some people to feel completed by a union with someone else. I'm smart, I'm driven, and I'm incredibly picky when it comes to the people I socialize with. Life is short, and just like everyone else does I make personal value judgments as to how best spend what little time I have. And in the end I'm quite happy--and still single. Go figure.

MaysonL 18y ago

Being smart can get you laid - you just have to find women who find smart guys attractive (such as the lady who was my boss at my first programming job). Such women do exist, though they're not all that common.

carterschonwald 18y ago
I second this.. I've found that just being overwhelmingly interesting is like candy to the right girls, and independent of whether its just friends or more, those gals are a pleasure to be around.

charlesju 18y ago

1. Sex is overrated. Like they said in the 40 year old virgin, don't put the pussy on a pedestal. If someone doesn't like you for who you are, they are probably not worth the time to sleep with. Find someone you can love, it's a much more rewarding experience, trust me. 2. If you are bent on being a "player", and you are smart (truly smart, not just smart as in able to program smart), then you can probably learn how to do it. Human beings are not that complicated.

rarrrrrr 18y ago
1 - I would argue that truly good sex, despite all hype, is yet highly underrated. I expect few people experience it though. Contributing factors include accumulated skill, anatomical compatibility, mindset, mood, physical fitness, etc. It's an outlier.
- deleted 18y ago
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jlees 18y ago

An incredibly masculine-focused article even if it made plenty of attempts to try to generalise across both the sexes. Being a smart woman gives you totally different dating prospects than being a smart guy (and not just the obvious). Seriously. It also gives you reasons to turn off the opposite sex that don't seem to be mentioned in the article - for example a lot of women play it dumb for fear of intimidating the guy they're flirting with. I've even caught myself doing it, which is saying a lot - I wear my IQ and education like a suit of armour most of the time.

DanielBMarkham 18y ago
I wear my IQ and education like a suit of armour most of the time It's interesting how smart people build up various defenses to keep people at bay -- including hyper-competitiveness. I remind my wife that you're supposed to let the boys win once in a while when we play cards, and we both get a laugh. She is merciless on my ego. But there's something to be said for fitting in, going with the flow, taking things as they happen. That's not to say to act dumb, just being in the moment at a rock concert probably isn't going to elicit Shakespearean quotes. There's a fine line between being smart and acting smart. Appearing smart is not necessarily a desirably externalized attribute in all social situations.
_pius 18y ago
for example a lot of women play it dumb for fear of intimidating the guy they're flirting with Ironically enough, this doesn't seem like a very intelligent strategy. I definitely get it, but it doesn't seem like a very wise approach in the long-term. What kind of partner would you end up with by hiding one of your most prized qualities?
- endtime 18y ago
  Agreed, though really this generalizes to "be yourself if you want to meet someone with whom to have a relationship."

deleted 18y ago

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c00p3r 18y ago

That is just an advertisement of very well positioned niche book - no one thinks he or she is dumb. Here's the thing: your romantic success has nothing to do with your mental jewelry and everything to do with how you make the other person feel. - this thing was painted on every wall from the beginning of the time. The problem is much more difficult and this approach is suitable perhaps only for the Cosmopolitan magazine. The Freud's lectures of psyhoanalysis can be useful as an bird-eye overview of the problem. The main idea is about altering a personal history to get rid of a fixations, regressions, and other things which were accumulated from the past and especially childhood, developing new habits, changing yourself. And there is a top-secret-great-magic-word: practice. If one in in his/her thirties and still looking at this kind of books or texts that simply indicates the very serious problem which requires an intensive therapy. Time waits for no one

frossie 18y ago

What a load of patronising, stereotyping... argh, I won't say it here. For starters, I see no evidence that this is a problem (anecdotes, anecdotes). Anybody can get laid. Finding someone who wants to put up with you the rest of the time is the true accomplishment.

Tsagadai 18y ago

The guy has a number of things backward or set in stone. First off you can have your cake and eat it. You don't actually need to cease being anything to get laid you just have to look harder. Honesetly, it is just that easy, somewhere out there is a woman/man/transgender looking for someone just like you. Hell, there are probably 10 people like that in every country. Second, the author takes a very macho outlook on dating. You don't have to do that. People are quite varied. Some like X, some prefer Y and some really love Q. His entire 'be the (wo)man' bit just smacks of heterocentricism and ignorance. Some people like the same. If that is you I encourage you to pursue that because you will be far, far happier than if you repress who you really are. Third. This point is just my advice. Don't deride people or look down on them. You will find love in peculiar places if only you look. So you're smart. Big deal. Don't dismiss that girl who left school before senior or the guy who never went to college. There are different forms of intelligence and you can find intelligent people who are not in the mold of the traditionally smart, educated and successful. And lastly, get out of the house/town/country. You will never find anyone, not even for a date if you don't get away from your personal comfort zone. I'm not dismissing those who only want to meet people through friends only that you must be truly lucky to find love that way. It is always best to expand yourself and head to the horizon of the known.

davidw 18y ago

One thing that helped me a lot: investing some money in some salsa dancing lessons. First of all, I actually enjoy it, it's fun (if you don't like it you wont' get far). Second, it's sort of cool, compared to, say, talking about startups and computers with someone who is potentially not interested in either one. Also, it's something where practice does pay off, and where you can't fake it, so investing some time will get you results. It's a real dance, too, between a man and a woman (well, a couple in any case, but we'll leave out the PC stuff for the sake of convenience) where the man leads and the woman follows, and they hold on to one another, not one of those flaily club type dance things. You can learn a lot about someone in a 2 or 3 minute dance with them, actually, and if you go to the right sort of clubs, people often change partners, so you have the chance to dance with lots of different people (so it's sort of like speed dating, but not so silly) and see what works out. Most places I've ever been to, people are having fun and smile, which I find a lot more attractive than the pouty, I'm-too-cool look. Oh, and finally, women who know how to really dance salsa are hot. Moving and swaying like that really adds something! Getting up the confidence to ask people to dance is really good too. You'll get shot down lots too, but you learn to deal with that.

jacoblyles 18y ago
Sounds like a great idea, especially for people that spend most of their time in an engineering school. It puts you in a different crowd and takes you outside of the sexless place you spend your days.
andyking 18y ago
Totally. I did it not so long ago (still am) and it's a brilliant confidence boost; everyone's there for the same reason, so it's not like just going to some club and hoping someone there will talk to you! You've got something in common, something to have a laugh about with every person there. Go into it with the right attitude and you will have fun. Don't fall into the trap that some men do and think "ooh, such-and-such a magazine says salsa classes will get me laid", cause on their own they won't. Girls there can spot the guys who go there with one intention from miles off and won't dance with them. Go there with the intention to have a bit of a giggle, meet a few new people, make a bit of a tit of yourself on occasion (something we ALL need!) and learn some sexy moves while you're at it and the world is your oyster. (Sorry for the disjointed response, I'm rushing out of the door! Will probably come back and write more later.)

edgeztv 18y ago

Bull. There are plenty of smart ppl successful in this area just as there are plenty of average guys unsuccessful at it.

strlen 18y ago

As I mentioned in a different comment, I think the issue boils down to having unrealistic expectations -- and these unrealistic expectations preventing smart individuals from getting any sort of experience in dating (which builds confidence) or finding out what they really want (e.g. Are you unable to date someone who doesn't share your political views? Who isn't a fellow nerd? who doesn't have a specific body type? You'll never whether any of these "must haves" is really something you're looking for until you try). In addition, getting into physical shape wouldn't hurt: initial attraction (what gets you the first date) is still mostly physical and being in good shape makes one confident (which gets you past the first three dates). Being in shape will also give you far more energy for 80 work weeks and all night hackathons (in no way, will being physically fit magically make you into a "jock").

cturner 18y ago

Happy coincidence - work is sending me to Duesseldorf on Monday!

seshagiric 18y ago

It won't get you laid-off either!

adrianwaj 18y ago

I'll sum it up: for a nice guy, the onus is on the female to say "yes" to his advances (if any) and for the dark-triad male, the onus is on her to say "no" to his advances. As sexuality today is still very much mostly a powerful unconscious drive, it is harder for most females to say "yes" than "no," because saying yes is a conscious decision and the female instead finds it easier to remain passive to her powerful unconscious side around these aholes, and which is why she's even interested in either in the first place. Aholes can muscle in on the nice guy, and we have not reached the tipping point for many females to take better control of their sexuality. In the end you can be a nice guy, but when the ahole comes along, be prepared. Don't leave it up to her to say yes.

ahpeeyem 18y ago
I think you're definitely onto something here, and I think the guy who puts himself out there and puts the onus on the woman to say 'no' instead of waiting for her to say 'yes' is more successful for a few reasons. 1. As you say, it's easier and less risky for the woman to remain passive and not make the conscious decision to say yes to the 'nice' guy who's waiting for her. 2. There is a lot of social pressure on females to not be a 'slut'. This is becoming less than it used to be but is also subtle and ingrained into society. By remaining passive and letting the man chase, she avoids the possibility of seeming promiscuous. 3. Some of the other comments are saying this as well: the theory that women have evolved to be attracted to a leader. Leadership, strength and confidence are demonstrated by a guy who will go out of his way to pursue a woman, even despite her initial coquettishness and playing hard to get. By doing this he shows that he's a confident man who has balls and is not afraid to get what he wants - themselves apparently attractive qualities in a bloke.
- adrianwaj 18y ago
  Also, the alpha and dark males probably get the bigger rejections, and that's what the nice guys are seeking to avoid. So that's another factor for the struggling males, being able to pursue but then being able to pick yourself up after a rejection. There's another factor at work to, 'consent.' A nice guy wants the interaction to be consensual, and it should be, but in a way she doesn't because as you say there's a stigma to it, but then again if she never gives consent, she'll not only end up attracting the aholes and be quietly looking for them to satiate her 'guilty pleasures', but also on the downside she'll lock herself out of the nice guys because giving consent will be too painful, and when she does, he may be ultimately turned off. In the end, she'll marry a somewhat inexperienced nice bloke to raise the kids after being used and abused by the aholes, and she may cheat on him if her issues are unresolved.

dejb 18y ago

This is a such well written sales copy. I followed it through to the 'book' and eventually came across one of those scamy looking very long sales pages. Check it out http://www.thetaoofdating.com/page3.php http://www.thetaoofdating.com/page3.php I'm not saying this means the article or product isn't valid or interesting but it does look like they have successful gamed HN.

chiffonade 18y ago

80% of guys have a tough time getting laid. It has nothing to do with being smart or not.

ftse 18y ago

OK, I've not read the article or any of the comments. My theory is, well, it all comes down to Game Theory. All things being equal, if you are nice, an arsehole or rich, if a guy/gal suspects you are _significantly_ smarter than they are, they will (un-)consciously believe you will soon find a 'better' partner and move on. So they don't invest in you => you don't get laid.

trapper 18y ago

It's funny. Most of the people I know didn't take advice a) loosen up, they took b) move, and went to europe following a smart female they met during postgrad.

ajuc 18y ago
Hey, you smart Americans, left our smart women to us :)

Ras_ 18y ago

Consider joining Carrotmob or some other "semi-hippie" environmental group. Your odds might improve - or at least you're helping to save the world with your talent.

Vivtek 18y ago

This is probably unreasonable, but three mentions of amoeba in terms of sexual reproduction really rankle.

gits_tokyo 18y ago

if one would realize it's all a hologram, that there's nothing to lose or gain except the amount of value one actually perceives. is it necessary for survival? i think the problem areas lay in the fact that everyone is buying into the greatest hood wink of life and turning it into something greater than it really should be.

ivankirigin 18y ago

I met Abby in an honors algorithms class.

asdlfj2sd 18y ago

I know I am going to get down voted for this, but here it goes anyway. This is how reddit went to hell. From interesting articles, to interesting articles which are also group therapy for a prominent minority of smart people with some serious problems. And that's the thing, most smart people, the countless I've met, the dozens of brilliant engineers I work with every day, they have none of these problems. They are family men, never had those problems. There are some unfortunate and very troubled souls, and they turn smart social news sites into sad group therapy.

Goladus 18y ago

I don't think smart men have more problems getting laid, I think they just tend to whine louder about it.

ajuc 18y ago

I've always been shy and had troubles with relations with other people. I've met my wife by chance, and it was miracle that she didn't put me down when I've told her repeatedly "I'm so boring, really, let's speak about you" on our first "date" :). I was expecting women will appreciate that I'm so humble etc. It turns out they just thought I'm really boring, if I say so myself. So this is lesson number one - don't assume women will appreciate that you are humble. Still - my wife somewhat endured my "I'm so humble and nice etc" talk, and we're married now, so there is a chance to everybody :) So - lesson number 2 is - when you meet right kind of person at right moment in life, it is really difficult to screw things up. So be yourself and don't worry - your time will come. Just remember to be open to new people and new experiences. PS when you are shy it helps a lot when you think about everything you do in terms of "what would be the worst outcome of this if I screw up?" It is often the case that the worst outcome is exactly the same that if you don't do anything. So expected value is higher than 0 :). For me it helped a lot.

pavel_lishin 18y ago
when you are shy it helps a lot when you think about everything you do in terms of "what would be the worst outcome of this if I screw up?" Sounds like a quick trip to panic attack city.

mojuba 18y ago

By virtue (or vice) of being smart, you eliminate most of the planet's inhabitants as a dating prospect. Dear Nature, I would like to eliminate most of the planet's inhabitants as a dating prospect by virtue or vice of me being smart. Thank you.

dkarl 18y ago

I thought I was smart. I thought I was right. I thought it better not to fight. I thought there was a virtue, in always being cool. So it came time to fight, I thought "I'll just step aside," and that the time will prove you wrong. And that you would be a fool. To fight is to defend. If it's not now then tell me when would be the time that you would stand up and be a man. For to lose I could accept, but to surrender I just wept, and regretted this moment that I was the fool. 'Cause I'm a man, not a boy, and there are things you can't avoid. You have to face them when you're not prepared to face them. If I could, I would, but you're with him, now it'd do no good. I should've fought him. But instead I let him... I let him take it.