3 ms·

I fully agree. But only because an American colony on Mars would be aesthetically preferable to a SpaceX corporate colony on Mars, where colonists'd predictably

I fully agree. But only because an American colony on Mars would be aesthetically preferable to a SpaceX corporate colony on Mars, where colonists'd predictably work fifteen year sentences as indentured servant miners to pay off their voyage. Also, an extension of our country on another planet would probably be the first move toward humans getting past statism entirely. But that's just a guess/hope.

kiba 13y ago
I fully agree. But only because an American colony on Mars would be aesthetically preferable to a SpaceX corporate colony on Mars, where colonists'd predictably work fifteen year sentences as indentured servant miners to pay off their voyage. I prefer that we look at those colonies as societies of their own, not an extension of some country into outer space. Otherwise, the inevitable will happen, and we will have an ugly civil war 200 years into the future. It's better that we look at this as an altruistic enterprise that will eventually yield a shitload of benefit to mankind 200 years down the road.
- encoderer 13y ago
  Right but if a society cannot possibly survive on its own, then what? If the settlement is tied by umbilical to a company or country or treaty org here, it's hard to act like it's an independent entity, because it's not one. I think we're certainly capable by now to create a charter that hands the colony over to itself at some point, 10, 20, 50 years in the future.
Dewie 13y ago
Who in their right mind would pay incredible amounts of money (or labour) to go to Mars? The only reason to go to Mars is for the sense of adventure (mining could get boring fast, unless you count the potential danger of it) and getting a place in the history books as one of the pioneers. Earth is a paradise compared to Mars.
- textminer 13y ago
  I don't think it'd be the folks living in a paradise. It'd be the folks fleeing persecution or economic horror. Why'd folks leave Europe for the New World, or any other migration? (And I mean the early ones-- not the gold rush-thinkin' ones.)
  - ubernostrum 13y ago
    Walter Miller's "Crucifixus Etiam" is a rather good story about this; essentially terraforming Mars as the new frontier for migrant labor, with all the harshness that comes from those types of frontiers (including the fact that it is, largely, a one-way trip for the laborers, since their lungs atrophy due to the special breathing equipment they're attached to).
TruthElixirX 13y ago
>Also, an extension of our country on another planet would probably be the first move toward humans getting past statism entirely. But that's just a guess/hope. So... have a state settle on Mars instead of a company of people mutually coming together will help us get past statism as a species? Brilliant. Truly brilliant.
- textminer 13y ago
  Only because it'd spectacularly fail.
btilly 13y ago
According to Elon Musk, the cost of the ticket to Mars will be $500k, and the cost of the return ticket will be free (after all he's bringing the spaceship back, doesn't cost much to add a body to it). If he holds to something like this (inflation adjusted), then the availability of a free return will keep your nightmare from happening. Furthermore the free return makes sense from a PR point of view. It is easier to get people to take a risk like that if they believe that they can get back from it. (Though I'm sure at some point there will be interesting litigation around someone who sold their house, didn't bother to pay out the mortgage, then took the money to buy a ticket to Mars, then disappeared to another world...)

I fully agree. But only because an American colony on Mars would be aesthetically preferable to a SpaceX corporate colony on Mars, where colonists'd predictably work fifteen year sentences as indentured servant miners to pay off their voyage. Also, an extension of our country on another planet would probably be the first move toward humans getting past statism entirely. But that's just a guess/hope.

kiba 13y ago

I fully agree. But only because an American colony on Mars would be aesthetically preferable to a SpaceX corporate colony on Mars, where colonists'd predictably work fifteen year sentences as indentured servant miners to pay off their voyage. I prefer that we look at those colonies as societies of their own, not an extension of some country into outer space. Otherwise, the inevitable will happen, and we will have an ugly civil war 200 years into the future. It's better that we look at this as an altruistic enterprise that will eventually yield a shitload of benefit to mankind 200 years down the road.

encoderer 13y ago
Right but if a society cannot possibly survive on its own, then what? If the settlement is tied by umbilical to a company or country or treaty org here, it's hard to act like it's an independent entity, because it's not one. I think we're certainly capable by now to create a charter that hands the colony over to itself at some point, 10, 20, 50 years in the future.

Dewie 13y ago

Who in their right mind would pay incredible amounts of money (or labour) to go to Mars? The only reason to go to Mars is for the sense of adventure (mining could get boring fast, unless you count the potential danger of it) and getting a place in the history books as one of the pioneers. Earth is a paradise compared to Mars.

textminer 13y ago
I don't think it'd be the folks living in a paradise. It'd be the folks fleeing persecution or economic horror. Why'd folks leave Europe for the New World, or any other migration? (And I mean the early ones-- not the gold rush-thinkin' ones.)
- ubernostrum 13y ago
  Walter Miller's "Crucifixus Etiam" is a rather good story about this; essentially terraforming Mars as the new frontier for migrant labor, with all the harshness that comes from those types of frontiers (including the fact that it is, largely, a one-way trip for the laborers, since their lungs atrophy due to the special breathing equipment they're attached to).

TruthElixirX 13y ago

>Also, an extension of our country on another planet would probably be the first move toward humans getting past statism entirely. But that's just a guess/hope. So... have a state settle on Mars instead of a company of people mutually coming together will help us get past statism as a species? Brilliant. Truly brilliant.

textminer 13y ago
Only because it'd spectacularly fail.

btilly 13y ago

According to Elon Musk, the cost of the ticket to Mars will be $500k, and the cost of the return ticket will be free (after all he's bringing the spaceship back, doesn't cost much to add a body to it). If he holds to something like this (inflation adjusted), then the availability of a free return will keep your nightmare from happening. Furthermore the free return makes sense from a PR point of view. It is easier to get people to take a risk like that if they believe that they can get back from it. (Though I'm sure at some point there will be interesting litigation around someone who sold their house, didn't bother to pay out the mortgage, then took the money to buy a ticket to Mars, then disappeared to another world...)