4 ms·

Challenge to PG/YC

10 points by will_brown 14y ago

"Founders have never had more power relative to investors than they do now." - PG I think there is a very easy method to prove this and I hope PG/YC will consider this challenge to prove himself right, obviously not for the sake of proving me wrong, but proving himself and the state of the investment market right for all Founders. Challenge: I propose including a "mole" in the next batch of YC, someone who 1. YC did not select for an interview; 2. already has a product; 3. will not take YC funding but go through YC and will otherwise be anonymous and identified as a YC Company (I assure you endless numbers of people would go to YC without any funding, just to be identified as a YC company); and 4. will present at demo day. The results can be measured through investors’ interest in the "mole". I will propose a hypothesis, that investor interest or actual investment will at least fall within the average of the rest of the batch. What does that mean? Well in my opinion this would prove, Founders do not have anymore power relative to investors, there is just a different gate-keeper. In fact, I would take this a step further and even suggest that YC has taken power away from Founders, where at least before investment was dictated by the market, i.e., if you create a product that the market adopts, then you can get funding to grow. Contrast that with the current power struggle where if you have a product that the market has adopted, there is less investment opportunities because investment dollars are already set aside for that next YC company that doesn't even have an idea.

larrys 14y ago
I think your hypothesis is correct in that it makes intuitive sense. [1] The problem with the approach is that n=1 so regardless of the outcome it wouldn't really adequately prove the point you are trying to make. You could do the same experiment with sending 1 person to Harvard but unfortunately that's not enough to prove anything either. [1] TV does experiments that I've seen where they take a blond woman asking strangers for help vs. a brunette to discover (iirc) that blonds do get more attention (or something like that) as well as "good looking" people. Add: No surprise there.
GFischer 14y ago
Please edit your title to "Challenge" (there's a misspelling). That said, I wouldn't do the experiment if I were PG. As larrys says, it wouldn't prove anything.
orangethirty 14y ago
YC does not owe anyone anything.
itsprofitbaron 14y ago
In other news, rejected YC applicant[1] calls out PG asking to be a "mole" company[2] which could ruin YC's credibility in the long term with investors and doesn't even make sense - for a startup the OP admits they have been told no one wants and then goes onto try and call out Google Ventures because, YouTube launched a version of it[3] - a completely different version which is better executed as highlighted by the fact that it doesn't require any form of plugin etc (this may come across as harsh but, it's useful feedback - you have added user friction and you should remove as much of it as possible) If you want to launch a product and succeed, YC doesn't guarantee you success nor does being rejected mean that you are a failure. YC have invested in numerous startups which have failed as well has having some great successes (Heroku, Dropbox, AirBnB, Stripe, OMGPop etc) but they've also missed out on some startups too: - SendGrid - http://www.sendgrid.com/ http://www.sendgrid.com/ (went through TechStars and have raised a series B) - CouchOne - http://www.couchbase.com/ http://www.couchbase.com/ - AfterTheDeadline - Acquired By Automattic - Light Sail Energy - http://www.lightsailenergy.com/ http://www.lightsailenergy.com/ - Raised money from Khosla Ventures - SignPost - https://www.signpost.com/ https://www.signpost.com/ - Raised $1M off Google Ventures - MyFit - http://www.myfit.com/ http://www.myfit.com/ - Raised $1M - Storenvy - http://www.storenvy.com http://www.storenvy.com - although they were kicked out of YC[4] but have recently raised $5M[5] [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5420541 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5420541 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5671751 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5671751 [3] http://www.youtube.com/trendsmap http://www.youtube.com/trendsmap [4] http://joncrawford.com/post/20378314843/how-i-got-kicked-out-of-y-combinator-and-then-raised http://joncrawford.com/post/20378314843/how-i-got-kicked-out... [5] http://techcrunch.com/2013/02/12/storenvy-goes-from-getting-kicked-out-of-yc-to-raising-a-5m-round/ http://techcrunch.com/2013/02/12/storenvy-goes-from-getting-...
- hcho 14y ago
  At the very least you have to give him credit for his persistence and attempt at hacking the YC.
- will_brown 14y ago
  I think you missed the point, it is not about me, otherwise the "mole" would not be very anonymous and be self-defeating...yes I put that in a prior comment directly to PG's comment, but this is a separate post and I do not suggest me. Separately, " OP admits no one wants" I do not know where you got that, in fact I picked up users from HN who have posted they think geotagged videos could be very useful in many different industries, but yes I applied to Google Ventures and YouTube created a similar product a few months later - did I say they ripped me off? No I just said it sucks...As to the plug-in you are correct my product would be better if it did not require a plug-in, but I can not just demand Google release an API for Google Earth that does not require a plug-in. Now...if I can smoothly transition your post about me back to my OP, I did not require PG to take a position that Founders have more power with Investors than any other time, I just disagree. I never said YC guarantees success, but it does guarantee funding, and as you will note my post is about PG's take on investment not success as you seem to read into my post. If you believe you as a Founder have more power today with investors than any other time, that is fine, you do not need to attack me personally because you disagree, maybe it is a fair characterization to say I called PG out, but I am not attacking PG personally just offering a way to prove his statement. Others have already commented my "challenge" would not prove anything, but admit my hypothesis is correct. I agree there is an inherent problem with YC putting someone they rejected in front of investors, unbeknownst to investors, but "ruin YC's credibility" that is a joke. However, I think your position proves my point as to PG's statement that the power does not rest with Founders otherwise if a investor liked a start-up they should not care whether they were a YC company or not, ie. if you invest after a demo at YC only to revoke your investment upon learning that Company was not accepted into YC, then my point is proven. So I guess a alternative challenge could be informing investors that a YC company that received investment is not really a YC company and see if the investors revoke their "hand-shake deal".
dear 14y ago
That's no challenge at all! How about this instead: Get a bunch of investors to pitch to an audience of founders who would then evaluate, select/reject which investors they would take. Now that is true founders power! I call that inverse-YC.
mwerty 14y ago
I seriously hope for YC's sake that PG has better things to do with his time than an n=1 experiment.

Challenge to PG/YC

10 points by will_brown 14y ago

larrys 14y ago

I think your hypothesis is correct in that it makes intuitive sense. [1] The problem with the approach is that n=1 so regardless of the outcome it wouldn't really adequately prove the point you are trying to make. You could do the same experiment with sending 1 person to Harvard but unfortunately that's not enough to prove anything either. [1] TV does experiments that I've seen where they take a blond woman asking strangers for help vs. a brunette to discover (iirc) that blonds do get more attention (or something like that) as well as "good looking" people. Add: No surprise there.

GFischer 14y ago

Please edit your title to "Challenge" (there's a misspelling). That said, I wouldn't do the experiment if I were PG. As larrys says, it wouldn't prove anything.

orangethirty 14y ago

YC does not owe anyone anything.

itsprofitbaron 14y ago

In other news, rejected YC applicant[1] calls out PG asking to be a "mole" company[2] which could ruin YC's credibility in the long term with investors and doesn't even make sense - for a startup the OP admits they have been told no one wants and then goes onto try and call out Google Ventures because, YouTube launched a version of it[3] - a completely different version which is better executed as highlighted by the fact that it doesn't require any form of plugin etc (this may come across as harsh but, it's useful feedback - you have added user friction and you should remove as much of it as possible) If you want to launch a product and succeed, YC doesn't guarantee you success nor does being rejected mean that you are a failure. YC have invested in numerous startups which have failed as well has having some great successes (Heroku, Dropbox, AirBnB, Stripe, OMGPop etc) but they've also missed out on some startups too: - SendGrid - http://www.sendgrid.com/ http://www.sendgrid.com/ (went through TechStars and have raised a series B) - CouchOne - http://www.couchbase.com/ http://www.couchbase.com/ - AfterTheDeadline - Acquired By Automattic - Light Sail Energy - http://www.lightsailenergy.com/ http://www.lightsailenergy.com/ - Raised money from Khosla Ventures - SignPost - https://www.signpost.com/ https://www.signpost.com/ - Raised $1M off Google Ventures - MyFit - http://www.myfit.com/ http://www.myfit.com/ - Raised $1M - Storenvy - http://www.storenvy.com http://www.storenvy.com - although they were kicked out of YC[4] but have recently raised $5M[5] [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5420541 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5420541 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5671751 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5671751 [3] http://www.youtube.com/trendsmap http://www.youtube.com/trendsmap [4] http://joncrawford.com/post/20378314843/how-i-got-kicked-out-of-y-combinator-and-then-raised http://joncrawford.com/post/20378314843/how-i-got-kicked-out... [5] http://techcrunch.com/2013/02/12/storenvy-goes-from-getting-kicked-out-of-yc-to-raising-a-5m-round/ http://techcrunch.com/2013/02/12/storenvy-goes-from-getting-...

hcho 14y ago
At the very least you have to give him credit for his persistence and attempt at hacking the YC.
will_brown 14y ago
I think you missed the point, it is not about me, otherwise the "mole" would not be very anonymous and be self-defeating...yes I put that in a prior comment directly to PG's comment, but this is a separate post and I do not suggest me. Separately, " OP admits no one wants" I do not know where you got that, in fact I picked up users from HN who have posted they think geotagged videos could be very useful in many different industries, but yes I applied to Google Ventures and YouTube created a similar product a few months later - did I say they ripped me off? No I just said it sucks...As to the plug-in you are correct my product would be better if it did not require a plug-in, but I can not just demand Google release an API for Google Earth that does not require a plug-in. Now...if I can smoothly transition your post about me back to my OP, I did not require PG to take a position that Founders have more power with Investors than any other time, I just disagree. I never said YC guarantees success, but it does guarantee funding, and as you will note my post is about PG's take on investment not success as you seem to read into my post. If you believe you as a Founder have more power today with investors than any other time, that is fine, you do not need to attack me personally because you disagree, maybe it is a fair characterization to say I called PG out, but I am not attacking PG personally just offering a way to prove his statement. Others have already commented my "challenge" would not prove anything, but admit my hypothesis is correct. I agree there is an inherent problem with YC putting someone they rejected in front of investors, unbeknownst to investors, but "ruin YC's credibility" that is a joke. However, I think your position proves my point as to PG's statement that the power does not rest with Founders otherwise if a investor liked a start-up they should not care whether they were a YC company or not, ie. if you invest after a demo at YC only to revoke your investment upon learning that Company was not accepted into YC, then my point is proven. So I guess a alternative challenge could be informing investors that a YC company that received investment is not really a YC company and see if the investors revoke their "hand-shake deal".

dear 14y ago

That's no challenge at all! How about this instead: Get a bunch of investors to pitch to an audience of founders who would then evaluate, select/reject which investors they would take. Now that is true founders power! I call that inverse-YC.

mwerty 14y ago

I seriously hope for YC's sake that PG has better things to do with his time than an n=1 experiment.